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Dr. Ryan Fraser

December 18, 2019 @ 10:00 am - 11:00 am CST

Author of:
Overcoming the Blues: Finding Christ-Centered Hope and Joy through Serving Others

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Interview Transcript

Note: transcript was automatically generated by YouTube, so there may be typographical, gramattical and spelling errors.

Shalom and welcome to this edition of revealing the truth where we cover the headlines the heart lines and biblical truth I’m your host messianic rabbi Erik Walker on a global scale more than 350 million people of all ages worldwide suffer with depression and in the United States alone the number of people diagnosed with depression is increasing by 30 percent every year no one is immune to depression not even the most faithful and dedicated believers as a counseling professor minister and licensed clinical pastoral therapist dr. Ryan dole Frazer has observed the prevalence of depression the church in the need for qualified caregivers in his new book dr. Fraser provides a revolutionary roadmap to wellness for those suffering with depression by focusing on three vital areas God’s presence serving others and respecting limitations he says we can confidently say that people everywhere hurting and in desperate need of real help but not just any help help that addresses mind body and soul help that provides hope and comfort for the faithful Christian he’s found the words of Paul in second Corinthians one three through five to include one of the most effective strategies for coping with depression is shifting one’s perspective by turning one’s attention from oneself towards the needs of others in his new book overcoming the blues he recognized the need for conventional approaches to dealing with the depression including prescription medication and counseling and also challenges readers in three distinct ways to recognize God’s abiding presence to reconnect by reaching out to others and to respect their own limitations dr. Ryan Fraser grew up in Cape Town South Africa on the mission field he holds a master’s and ministry master’s in divinity and a doctorate and pastoral theology and pastoral counseling from bright Divinity School at Texas Christian University a licensed clinical pastoral therapist and a fellow in the American Association of pastoral counselors he directs the master’s in pastoral care and counseling program at freed-hardeman University he and his lovely wife Missy have two adult children in Tennessee where they enjoy hiking and barbecuing in the back yard you can find more about him at Ryan Noel no Fraser not calm here to talk about his new book overcoming the blues finding christ-centered hope and joy through serving others is dr. Ryan Frazier dr. Fraser welcome to revealing the truth rabbi Eric it’s such a pleasure to be with you I’ve been looking forward to this conversation thanks for the invitation well it’s proven to have you I know that in my lifetime I’ve had periods of it really circumstantial know anything ongoing but things that kind of tip you over the the the out of balance kind of navigation and you know receive good strong biblical counseling and working with my medical practitioner on medications to help and so I’ve always encouraged people not to discount the fact that medicine is God ordained he gave us plants and other elements to be able to study and recognize what the physical medical aspects of depression can be before we get into a book that I found to be incredibly encouraging very validating absolutely no condemnation no feeding into this already withered kind of spiritual existence and trying to cope with this kind of helps say listen it’s okay this is where you are this is where you may be for the rest of your life and they a circumstance but there is a way to overcome you may not be able to change your circumstance but you can change how you handle your circumstance so before we get into the book I’d kind of like to get you a little bit better our audience get to know you a little bit better kind of take a journey back to little Ryan Fraser in Cape Town South Africa and growing up in the mission field what that was like for you and when and how faith became your own and then the calling to pastoral therapy and counseling well that’s a long story I hope we have enough time but my my background is a bit different in that both my parents were born and raised in South Africa so they’re both guess you would say negatives of Cape Town South Africa they came to to faith in their mid-twenties my dad came over – he was a plumber decided to become a preacher and came to the state’s actually – my alma mater here at Freda Hardman and got his back then it was just a – two or three year type of associate’s degree but I was born here while they were here and then at the age of one went back to South Africa where he truly did missionary type work is establishing churches a lot of a lot of evangelism was the focus but throughout my growing up years as a missionary kid as a preacher’s kid I’ve got an older brother and two younger sisters we were baptized I guess the themes of church and the Bible and Christ and our responsibility to to be servant oriented and things were walking along pretty well for me I never wanted to go into ministry there was not ever on the on the horizon I in fact I thought and I just hey I’m not good enough to do that and B I just didn’t want to preach funerals you know that was something was just so off-putting to a young person sure I thought I wanted to go into architecture and but my senior actually my junior year in high school I just turned 16 I was in a freak accident I speak about in the book but I ended up breaking my neck fracture my third and fourth cervical vertebrae and ended up in a hospital for about two months and during that time I’m not saying that that was the you know the the watershed event but it did get me during my very slow recovery process from that and having to learn how to walk again and I was so emaciated you know coming through that process within the next year I really started thinking about my future and the type of difference I I wanted to make in this world and started feeling that that calling you know God’s calling upon me to to be in in ministry in to to share the good news about God and and so made that choice to go into ministry ended up flying over a year to the states to get my my training but rabbi Eric while I was doing my ministerial training I kept on finding myself gravitating towards psychology classes and I didn’t have a major in psychology not even a minor in psychology but I knew I just having been a preacher’s kid a missionary’s kid I knew that there was such a great need for capable pastoral caregivers and counselors and so I went through got you know met my wife while I was here and we together decided to you know do this ministry thing together ended up in Oklahoma doing youth ministry then in North Texas youth ministry and pulpit ministry and continuing my education during that time to working on an MDF and all through that that time I I was just surrounded by people in church that were broken were hurting dealing with depression and anxiety and addiction and OCD and broken homes and I just I found so just incompetent to to really help to do more than say hey you just need to pray more or that’s me throw a scripture at that but really to to help people not that prayer and scripture it’s not helpful but you know we need to contextualize things so and I just threw it a series of different types of events in in my own growth as a believer and as a minister I thought I really need to become more equipped and hopefully can equip other people in ministry and other kind of people that have our faith to be more competent to more faithful but also capable in their ministerial counseling care that integrates both the social sciences psychology sociology with theology and and faith faith resources in the judeo-christian tradition so that is how I I ended up landing where I’ve landed and I feel like I’m in my dream job able to train future ministers and counselors and to to not do damage to actually help people in there working in the trenches and that’s that’s how I landed where where I’m at you know it’s a very interesting that you’re training up pastors and people who will go into as part of the pastoral ministry as I planted the congregation led the congregation and became involved with counseling and having to shore up a lot of my education to go get some some good solid training one of the things that I found is that there’s also the aspect that pastors ministers it’s it’s a very isolating job in many respects the fact that your relationships have to be somewhat at arm’s length with the car against and who you can have as a confidant or quote-unquote safe person probably is not within the local it’s certainly not within your congregation and it’s and maybe not even in your own City I found that I had peer support outside of the local community and when I went through a period where I needed counseling to get through a very difficult time I went to a counselor that specialized in East Bay he was a pastoral care minister for a very large church but Monday’s he devoted to counseling pastors and so I went to someone who specialized in pastoral counseling to handle betrayal isolation depression those kind of things that ministers do struggle with in the Pope yes oh my goodness I have quite a few clients that are in ministry I’ve done some work in what’s in Latin America with missionaries with great cities missions and what what we’ll do every couple of years go down to South Paulo Brazil and there’ll be about 50 to 60 North American missionaries typically but that are living there some have been there for forty five years in different parts of Latin America either Spanish speaking of Portuguese speaking but they’ll fly in four for a week and during that week I’ve led the the counseling team there’s also other spiritual teaching and we basically don’t let them do anything we don’t even let them lead a prayer they they are just they’re there to to be filled up and and definitely we provide counseling as well because so many of the the missionaries are so isolated and they’re dealing with family issues and addiction issues and and other struggles that they can’t when they tell they are supporting churches for fear of losing support or losing you know their their credibility and so there is such a such a need for for those in ministry by the way you may probably very well know this but those that are in ministry in general according to a study that was done through life way back a couple years ago they are four hundred percent ministers are 400% more likely to suffer from clinical depression than then the mainstream population which is just absolutely mind-blowing but and part of that is the pressure external internal pressure the glass a glass house or fish bowl that we operate in and there was a book written years ago every pastor needs a pastor you know every every minister and need somebody that they can talk with and unload worth and have catharsis with and feel safe and you know in that relationship and that what they’ve said will be held confidential which is often very threatening to to those of us that are in ministry to to really be transparent yeah I had to sit in several trials where the attorney would ask me a question I said I’m sorry but I cannot answer that that’s pastoral under pastoral privilege and the the lawyer would say to the judge will you compel the witness to answer the question and the judge would say he did answer the question it is protected by pastoral privilege and very very uncomfortable to invoke it but was called to do it on several occasions I think one of the interesting aspects of of this struggle with depression both in the body and with ministers being more susceptible to this is that none of us will may examine ourselves really feel worthy of the gift given to us of forgiveness for our sins we just feel like we’ve fallen way short we’ve done things in our lives that are unpardonable unforgivable that were this this wretch and then you take it to the next level and you’re unworthy and now you’re telling people and leading people and you almost feel like you’re a fraud and and you know if they really knew who I was if they really knew what I was really if they knew my background if they knew were like things I did in the 60s and the 70s things even I did in the 50s you know they they’d be running out of here as fast as they possibly could screaming as if their heads were on fire and so that’s a real struggle and facing the realities of our brokenness our fallen nature and that battle that war internal battle where you do have the contrary spirit country nature natural inclination towards leaning towards the dark side and then you become a believer and you have this indwelling of the Holy Spirit and this tug-of-war constantly going back and forth it Paul talks about as a thorn in his flesh and I do what I ought not to do and I don’t do what I should do and he gave us a perfect example of that so Jack I think Isaiah as well and Isaiah 6 where he says I’m a I’m a man of unclean lips living among a people of unclean lips and you know we resonate with that because we we are all broken Henry Henry knew and spoke about how we’re wounded healers we’re all we’ve all got our wounds and our broken as some of its psychological other physical but but again coming back to the Apostle Paul 2nd Corinthians 12:10 talks about for when I’m weak then I’m strong and I think it’s that that recognition of our our finitude and God’s infinitude and our weakness and God’s strength and rather than letting our position and authority go to our head which can happen definitely it happens to a lot of ministers and pastors and professors but recognizing that except except for the grace of God here go I you know and and that makes this more real and I think even in the pulpit and in our ministry if we can do some appropriate self disclosure congregants and people in the community connect to us as a human a human being and I think that even increases our credibility that we know you know we’re not perfect but we’re imperfectly perfect we where we’re washed where we are saved through the grace you know of God it’s a it’s interesting that pastors who are Shepherds servant leaders who are putting others people’s needs before their own actually is why we can do what we do is because it’s not about us and that’s actually very thematic to your approach to acknowledging as opposed to demonizing depression and anxieties and saying okay let’s take a look you you listened to the sermon of the pastor and you’re moved by the sermon of the pastor and he’s there serving in the serving line you know putting food on your plate and he’s there your bedside and visit you in the hospital and he does these things and he seems to be doing okay he seems to be alright and that’s because is he’s still maybe navigating depression or anxiety or other issues of thought patterns and and distortions or whatever but yet there’s tens of thousands of pastors how many churches there are but there’s probably a couple hundred thousand pastors the United States and the way we get through is is through this this concept that you have that now brings it down to the individual and says you know what hey there is another way to a pro this and that’s rather than denying it rather than the books that say that it’s wrong or that it’s purely spiritual and a demonic attack that it’s real it’s something that if you acknowledgement is not a acknowledgment is not accepting it it’s recognizing it right I can work to [Music] be cured healed delivered treated you have it under control I don’t have to to just accept my faint and then be in this heap of despair you know sometimes I talk to addiction groups that just did actually a couple weeks ago down in Dallas and I and this works with with depression too and I was actually speaking about addiction and depression to may celebrate recovery group and so you know we make this this this juxtaposition of an internal locus of control for versus an external locus of control so the internal you know I I’m an agent I’m able to make choices I’m able to change my future by my decisions you know so we got that side in the external of course being the world’s happening to me out you know I’m out of control I don’t have really any say in in how things pan out and so you know a lot of us will jump to the internal locus of control but I I’ve suggested a third area to kind of build on Julie and rodder psychologist there’s what I call an eternal locus of control so the eternal locus of control is ultimately recognizing the sovereignty of God but also our our worthiness in that he has made us worthy and and allows you know gives us this opportunity not to and I don’t like the terminology when we say we’re partnering with God I think we’re just say that is to say too much you know more to say I’m God God’s my co-pilot I’m in the passenger seat in the back somewhere but to at least at least be able to claim that I’m participating in God’s work I’m participating God’s work and God can work through me whether it’s depression addiction anxiety OCD God can work through me and use my story redeem my story to to make a a difference and maybe connect connect his love and peace and hope through through the story and the redemption of that story not to say that you know that it’s the story is over and that the hard part is is done but to recognize that God is rather than s holding God’s hand God is holding our hand he’s holding us and his facilitating our our spiritual walk and giving us that that peace that surpasses understanding and that that joy that’s based not on the happenings of our life but but firmly upon a a relationship a solid relationship with with him you know it’s interesting there’s three Greek words for love yeah but there are hundreds possibly even thousands of phobias and Greek words like you know that I did a years ago I did a sermon series and I went and printed out on a dot matrix printer was twenty five feet long and very small type all of the phobias and fear of chickens fear of peanut butter sticking to the roof of your mouth I mean where we have so much so many Papa phobia fear the Pope you know just a long list of things that we contend with because the the author fear is the prince of this earth and because of that fear is is a trigger to anxiety to depression to night terrors to insomnia all the residual symptomatic aspects of dealing with a depression or anxiety and I don’t even like to call it a disorder I mean that’s the term that’s used but and it is a disorder meaning there’s something out of order but we have to write put things in back in right order and that’s kind of the concept of your book is how to put your your life which says that yes you have this depression we’ll start with that assumption and that premise that you are somebody who is dealing with depression and/or anxiety but here’s how there’s a new approach that does not invalidate but validates and says okay if that’s where you are okay let’s not demonize that and stick you in a padded room let’s take it and give you the tools to be able to navigate a way to shift the spotlight from yourself in the mirror the man of the mirror to other people and that Ministry of one another that’s the core concept of of the book and that’s exactly what we’re going to get into after we take a short break we’re talking with dr. Ryan Noel Fraser you can find him at Ryan or Fraser comm his new book overcoming the blues finding christ-centered hope and joy through serving others it is a fascinating read and a new approach to really taking depression and not letting it rule you but you are still able to have a life of contribution and a life of value and still deal with the aspects of depression and anxiety that are real and active in your life we’re going take a short break and we come back we’re going to learn a little bit more about the how to’s and the what twos contained inside overcoming the blues with dr. Ryan Noel Frazier we’ll be right back the Lord meets you right where you are and so does ignite Ignatians new live streaming outlets you can now watch revealing the truth revealing the Bible and prophecy revealed simulcast live each Monday through Friday from 10 a.m. to 1 o’clock p.m. Central Standard Time on YouTube live Facebook live vinny o periscope and through our website wwii and a song calm no matter what device you are using our program will automatically scale so you won’t have to miss a single program and if you happen to miss an episode you can always subscribe to the igniting a nation youtube channel and access over 1,000 interviews and never miss your favorite authors special guests and topics that interest you the most there are lots of ways to see Israel but nothing compares to seeing the land of the book and the people of the book through the eyes of two Jewish believers who can take you on a journey that will bring the entire Bible to life when you join Rabbi Eric Walker and his number-one-rated tour guide Ito Canaan in Israel you’ll experience incredible teachings first-class accommodations and actually walk where Jesus walked you will experience the Bible transforming from black and white into living color and you will never see the Bible in the same way again for more information visit us at wwe.com ford slash events the Lord contends with what contends with you and igniting a nation is committed and bring to light each and every issue that faces a believers life our live stream programming and teachings take you on a journey to finding biblical truth from a wide variety of experts who share their insights into a deeper walk with the Lord we have assembled the most comprehensive panel of experts in the fields of prophecy caregiving healing from trauma shame and abuse and so much more we continue to expand our teachings and programming to meet your needs we’re committed to healing the nations with biblical truths visit WWE and nation.com to develop a deeper walk with the lord and start your journey to a transformed life the Bible commands us to study to show ourselves approved but most study using Bible study tools and not actually studying the Bible chapter and verse igniting a nation is pleased to present revealing the Bible recorded and taught each week before a live audience we take you deeper into the actual Bible and verse and both Hebrew and English and connect the dots between the old and new Testament you can attend our two classes and Tuscaloosa and Birmingham or watch the program every Wednesday at 11 a.m. Central time on igniting a nation calm and all our other simulcast outlets for more information visit forward-slash events Shalom and welcome back to this edition of revealing the truth where we cover the headlines the heart lines and biblical truth I’m your host messianic rabbi Erik Walker and we’re talking with dr. Ryan Noel Frazer author of the new book overcoming the blues finding christ-centered hope and joy through serving others dr. Frazier welcome back to this segment of revealing the truth Thank You Eric it’s such a pleasure to be on the show and decided to be here thank you help us understand first watch some of the misconceptions about God depression and Christians believers well certainly with there’s a lot of misconceptions so what are the misconceptions around sufferers or those that are not suffering but looking at those that are suffering with depression would be maybe the the same complex that job’s friends had that God is punishing you for some hidden secret sin or God has abandoned you because of your unworthiness all that God just doesn’t care about you God is distant and kind of the theistic notion of God that sets the world in motion and here we are the suffering in the you know just trying to make our way through the mud and the muck of life and are stuck in this often stuck in an abyss but without God’s help and so each of those perspectives is incorrect and that’s not the God of the Bible the God who loves us and is compassionate towards us and forgives us and has has made a a plan of salvation you know for us and so so many sufferers of depression especially those that I’ve been privileged to work with over the years feel a tremendous amount of shame around their their depression i speaking terms of gas GA s gasoline which is an accelerant so the G for guilt the a for anxiety and anger and the s for shame that just is a an accelerant you know to to or exacerbates these these issues from a spiritual perspective and many believers those in the pews or those in the pulpit that have struggled with depression have felt less than or felt somehow that they are flawed beyond when others are flawed and therefore if only I had more faith or if only I was a better person if only I was a stronger person if only I was a more dedicated Christian or Jew you know I would be able to navigate through this with without the issues I’m having and I in my book one of the one lists the key themes is that depression is not a symptom of faithlessness necessarily I mean there could be a sin aspect I understand with David and Beth Sheba so sometimes that could be part of it but more often than not depression is not a symptom of faith as it’s a mental health issue and we need to deal with that aspect from a an appropriate professional way at times but also from a a biblically sound and a compassionate perspective realizing that you know Jesus was a the Messiah was one that would be familiar with grief and with sorrow and not one that was sheltered from the pain sometimes emotional to rest that we as humans experience well it’s interesting you you before I guess I was from I was gonna bring that up is that periods of sadness or periods of grief or that are not extended or protracted or on a long-term basis we all experience that but there are some who are in that state for a long period of time and that’s really what qualifies them to be in that quote-unquote diagnosis if you will of depression and so this is not to say that if you’re sad over situation or you’re weeping overs I mean Jesus wept but he wasn’t depressed he he was expressing grief so the loss of a loved one there is a period of grief it’s a natural process one that if you deny it can lead you down a path of real depression if you don’t honor the feelings and the emotions of the soulish aspects of our existence it’s like cutting off one third of yourself it’s a same thing as only acknowledging the Father but not the son the Holy Spirit or on acknowledging the son but not the Holy Spirit not the father it’s the same way with ourselves where we have a soul as well we’re tripartite means of mind body and soul and there is that that important aspect of recognizing by the way with grief grief it’s God given God gives us that capacity to grieve and that’s I had an old CPA CPE I’m sorry supervisor clinical Paschal education supervisor that Lindell Anderson he used to say grief is our way of getting ourselves back and it’s that process that is a healthy albeit painful process but it’s it’s a very human process that God has given to us and often we were uncomfortable with other people’s grief and we want them to rush through it and it’s a holiday season right now so a lot of folks or just you know that they want you to put paste on a happy smile but in Middle Eastern cultures I think they understand grieving and that process better than we do in in the West you know as far as at the time that that’s needed and and the normalcy of that now they can be an abnormal see and it can be complicated grief that comes along and and it can trigger other issues so we understand that but all things considered it’s a normal god-given healthy process that we as we go through and hopefully come through another side stronger and more more able to to face life in your book you III call them the 3 R’s that that you’ve talked about in the book there are conventional approaches medication and and counseling but there’s also the 3 R’s that you give that are part of that prescription as well you know it’s you may go to for weight loss and they might put you on a medication but they also add diet and exercise to the equation so medication plus diet plus exercise is going to promote healthy weight loss well there’s also the aspects in treating depression that there is the medication okay that’s the one aspect but you have three additional components to it that I think are rather engaging yeah the thank you that the three hours of unlike reading riting and rithmetic these actually do all start with our but the first are is recognizing God’s abiding presence and I’m drawn to such tax as Psalm 34:18 that the Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit or he was 13:5 that God’s promised never will I leave you never will I forsake you and so though at times for the depressed individual one going through various malaise and in their life it might feel a psychological emotional level that God is a million miles away and is uninterested and uninvolved but that that feeding and that distorted cognition is really a symptom of depression though at times you know even on the cross Jesus is quoting a lament Psalm Psalm 22 my God my God why have you forsaken me it’s a Davidic Psalm and he’s tapping into into David’s you know emotional experience there and but at the end there’s also the recognition that God is there God really has not abandoned and so recognizing God’s abiding presence that’s where we need to get back into your scripture and speak to surround ourselves with believers and those that can encourage us when we’re going through these times the second door is reconnecting to others by you know reaching out and so one of the one of the byproducts of depression I’m going to light you I’m trying to keep from going out on me one of the byproducts of depression is isolation and so that need to reconnect through through relationships but then also through service and so by serving others it brings us out of our shell it brings us out of our hiddenness or out of our isolation and helps us to to reconnect with with others and so I see service not just as a you know as a temporary distraction but it’s it’s a very powerful antidote it’s a very powerful way to help us reconnect with ourselves with God with with others through shifting our perspective and reaching out and then also the last our is the the concept of let’s see so respecting our limitations because depression does put a toll on us emotionally physically there’s often psychosomatic issues that come as a result of it and so just being willing to respect our our own finitude and realizing that I can’t say yes to everything I can’t do everything but I can do what God empowers me and helps me to do Peter writes about serving with the strength that God supplies in 1st Peter 5 and so I I think that recognizing God’s abiding presence reaching out to others or reconnecting and then respecting our limitations is a faithful and appropriate and mature way to approach overcoming the blues in in the und chapter with what you call a blue task and you also have it on your website you can go up the first one is a song you have people listen to I know that my during my dark night of the soul if you will I played Psalm 13 I had a recording of it how long the Lord will you be silent you know but I will trust in your own feeling you know it’s kind of that navigating all the way through I’m depressed I’m sad I’m not hearing from you you know please look upon me an answer but I will trust in your unfailing love and I will sing of your praises forever even though I’m going through this difficult time you took Moses through the three through through the river cross you know through the the crossing the Red Sea you delivered our people through snow what we’ve survived as a people group there’s only 14 million of us in the world and you know we hold the key to the return of the Messiah that’s a pretty severe responsibility to continue to minister knowing what the Bible says is going to come and having to have the strength to face that I think that sometimes people become overwhelmed with the the fear that comes with is there going to be a war in the Middle East what about this you all this talk about endtime prophecy and Gog and Magog and what’s to happen to Americans and what’s going to happen to my family and if there’s this huge world war three kind of massive world destruction how does that play out so part of the narrative can be depressing seiyya t invoking for sure and we call it the good news right you know which is counterindicated in this case what are some of the ways to apply this reconnecting what kind of service projects or serving of others as I ease myself back into leaving the house not just to go to a doctor’s appointment or I try to regain more not authority or control but follow this prescription what are some of the common tasks that you have people engage in yeah I’ll preface that by saying that the danger is to overdue and to do too much to too soon and especially somebody that’s been maybe on the more severe major depressive disorder been in bed for days and now all of a sudden you know they expecting too much because that can that can result in guilt you know I’m unable to do this so my suggestion you start small start small and maybe maybe a place to start is simply to think about a you know a couple of people in within your sphere of influence or within your family that might could could use some help in whatever way whether it’s just you know helping them with their in the kitchen or their grocery shopping if they an elderly person maybe getting their car tuned up for them or if it’s in the summertime you know maybe just help with mowing the grass or maybe you know Piro maybe they can mow the grass but they can’t we D the grass so something smaller could be writing a card to to someone that has recently lost a loved one picking up the phone making a phone call I’m all about the Ministry of presence if we can be physically present to someone that’s great but sometimes it’s not always possible so it might even be sending them a you know a nice little note that just says I’m thinking about you but the place to start would be but before those events is praying praying for those opportunities praying for those individuals and praying that God can use us in a way that will be helpful to them and to us as well and so this is a season of giving here in the US and acts 20 verse 35 says it’s more blessed to give than to receive and that’s because the the giver whether it’s giving a gift or sharing something of ourselves can you know what we are the ones that that get the the greater reward both in heaven and and on earth because it feels good it feels good to to make a difference in someone else’s life and so there’s some things we can do individually there might be a service project that we do as a family hey we’re gonna go as a family and go grocery shopping for this family down the street or go work at a soup kitchen together just for a couple of hours right so do it as a family and then maybe do it as a as a church family so you know I think there’s the microcosm with ourselves and a small family and then maybe orchestrating something larger now this might be biting off too much for some but maybe starting a support group you know for people that are dealing with loss or depression or as a church providing a special maybe a baby sitting in a service once a month or once every couple of weeks for younger couples that don’t have anyone to watch the kids so that they can go out on a date you know so there’s a myriad of ways that we can serve domestically we can serve internationally of course going on mission trips and other humanitarian relief possibilities but again I’ll come back my advice is start small don’t don’t overwhelm yourself and I think as we as we start with the small things you know that there’s that saying the Devils in the details well the solutions also in the details all right the solutions are the details and if we can focus on on the small things maybe we can build up some momentum to to tackle larger service-oriented projects well I find it to be very wise counsel and I can see adding a question to your next session you might have with your therapist or adding a question to your next conversation with you have with your pastor is what do they recommend that you get involved in what do they see you based on their assessment of your abilities and capacity to you take on some projects or some get some wise counsel from both your therapist and your pastor as to how you can engage in that way it’s you’d have a support mechanism to accountability check in how’s that going how’s that working out how you feeling about making a contribution and track it to see whether or not that’s the right area for them in service I like that concept and you know I was thinking about put my therapist cap on for a moment at times when I have clients that you know we’re negotiating out what they’re gonna do I often pull them back a little bit because they say oh well I’m gonna do you know whatever this project is and it’s it’s really bit too big for them right now and I don’t want them to get discouraged you’ll feel hey that just goes to show I really I’m a failure couldn’t even do that so I’ll pull them back and say well instead of doing this this larger project why don’t we let’s refine it and take off a little bite-sized now for those that are struggling if they supersede that that goal that initial goal and they go beyond that’s great for a person’s self-esteem too sad I know we already plan on this but I I went the extra mile was able to do that you know which is which is wonderful well it’s a great concept and based on good sound biblical theological foundation for overcoming the blues new book by dr. Ryan Noel Frazier finding christ-centered hope and joy through serving others if you’re in and being treated for depression and you want to find ways to for a healing balm a healing salve to be placed on that in addition to the medication the counseling dr. Frazier recommends that you find a way to perform acts of service or engage in of service and focusing on another as opposed to your own circumstance I think that’s wise counsel in many areas depression anxiety and many other areas to take us out of self and put us more back into community you can visit more about dr. Fraser at Ryan Noel Fraser dot-com dr. Fraser thank you for sharing overcoming the blues with us and these great insights and tools to help people navigate depression and anxiety rabbi eric has been in it after the joy thank you this time of the year for hosting me and I appreciate the questions that have been asked in your comments and I can tell you if a lot of wisdom layers so hopefully we can make a difference in the lives of people over this season end of the year god bless thank you thank you thank you and god bless to you Happy New Year Merry Christmas Happy Hanukkah and we are going to take a short break and when we come back we’ll bring you the next edition of revealing the truth.

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