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Jerry Trousdale & Glenn Sunshine

January 7 @ 10:00 am - 11:00 pm CST

Author of:
The Kingdom Unleashed: How Jesus' 1st-Century Kingdom Values Are Transforming Thousands of Cultures and Awakening His Church

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Interview Transcript

Note: transcript was automatically generated by YouTube, so there may be typographical, gramattical and spelling errors.

Shalom and welcome to this edition of revealing the truth will cover the headlines the heartlines and biblical truth I’m your host messianic rabbi Erik Walker Christianity is growing faster than at any time in history so why is the church in Europe and America stagnant or declining and what will it take for that to change the kingdom unleased explores God’s kingdom movements central to every movement of the core values of the kingdom of God which Jesus proclaimed and modeled throughout his ministry the authors of the kingdom Unleashed spent three years researching why only a few such movements are happening in North America and Western Europe they identify historical and worldview issues that hinder kingdom movements in the West interviews with many leading movement catalysts illuminate the biblical principles paradigms and practices that Jesus mandated for his disciples by returning to these we can revitalize Christianity in the global north and see the kingdom Unleashed our next guest Jerry Truesdale and his wife Gail were church planters among the Muslim people grew up in West Africa in the 1970s later he pastored missions sending churches in California and Tennessee he also served in Christian publishing and broadcasting in 2002 Jerry and some of us African colleagues were exposed to the early kingdom movements of Asia and then began a process of learning to catalyze them in Africa co-founding final command ministries in 2003 since 2005 Jarius served as director of international ministries for new generations formerly city team international were in partnership with hundreds of global South ministries more than 430 people groups have been successfully engaged in 29 countries 110 of those engagements have become disciple making movements with at least 100 searches and four generations of churches planting churches here to discuss the new book co-authored by Gerry Truesdale and Glen sunshine is Gerry Truesdale co-author of the kingdom on nice Jerry Happy New Year to you and welcome to revealing the truth thank you my brother it’s great to be with you Eric and and I’ve been looking forward to well thank you so much before we get into more about the kingdom Unleashed and kind of a second visit we had Glenn on and got his perspective and we wanted because of the impact of our audience response to it as well as my deep interest because I don’t come out of the church and I’m not really I’m a part of the kingdom I’m a part of the body but I’m a Jewish believer and not plugged in a lot about Christianity other than having preached in a lot of churches hearing things that puzzled me and didn’t connect and didn’t resonate with the truth of Scripture and so I have had a 23 year rather confusing journey navigating through 90 separate divisions of which there are 28 34 thousand iterations within those 90 different subcategories of Christianity so I’m not really sure I know how to define Christianity and and that’s that’s that’s an odd thing to say but it’s true I really can’t define Christianity at least it’s not you know there’s no universal practice to it but before we get into that I kind of like to go to the early years of Gerry Truesdale long before you had these incredible accomplishments there was a young man a young boy growing up in a home that had some influences in his life that led him on this path and this path was a calling it wasn’t a cooter preference test that you took in elementary school like I did that said this is what your your aptitude is for so tell us a little bit about your faith journey and how this became such a passion for you early on in your life well well I was really blessed to have a strong family of who of Christ followers and my mom and dad and my my great-grandfather had been an attender at church planter in the in the 1800s and died young and so we had a heritage of that my grandfather when I was 15 and I had had taken a break in school I was in high school obviously and he said I want you to meet a friend of mine and his name was Barney and Barney was a mission mobilizer that was the first one I would ever meet and he just asked me one question he said young man young man do you think it’s right for everyone to for anyone to hear the gospel twice before everyone hears it once and you know I can’t explain it to you I can’t tie but I remember it I tell people where I was standing in front of a drugstore across the street from the school and I remember it was like that blast of of saying this is what you were born to do and so I sort of made it and when I pastored churches I I tried to make sure that we went for the other the segments that were not necessarily the polite segments and so now remember one Sunday morning seeing a lady who was coming out of prostitution and she was sitting with a professor at Azusa Pacific and as a biblical professor and I thought this is the kind of church I want you know I want to be part of and so it was a natural migration to to fuller and other places to learn from how the movements happen because I I realized that it it was going to not be addition it had to be multiplication – to see the harvest and there there’s a couple of levels that that one of them is just you have to go for difficult peoples Matthew 24:14 where that I learned fairly early in life is that is that every nation and every people group must be must be hear the gospel must have a gospel option before Jesus will come again and that’s his last that’s his last word on when they when they said teach us about these things and and the end of the of the time and so and so I I think I just had the Lord blessed me with a decision to save when I when I do ministry let’s try to go to the places where the gospel was never gone and we won’t take we won’t not do the other but but that needs to be the focus and it’s exciting because over the years it wasn’t possible to do that we didn’t even know where they were but but one of the wonderful things that’s happened in the body of Christ is we’ve tracked now all those people groups and I you know we are very close to the finish line of seeing who they are and we’re having more and more churches and ministries adopt all the new ones that we are finally find and for me that is something that I believe is is in the world of the prophetic it’s the church I believe that’s one of the highlights of I think the 21st century and I think it’s one of the reasons that the explosion has happened I have to tell you that I after a season of pastoring a church in California I came to the conclusion that we didn’t have the spiritual paradigms that we need to finish the task to finish Matthew 24:14 to finish the Great Commission we just didn’t have it – to make it possible so that revelation the revelation the picture of the the celebration of the nation’s worshipping God of all the nations and peoples and tribes and languages and so I I said you know it costs too much it takes too long it’s not transformational I was thinking about Burundi and Rwanda you get the picture on and I said you know Lord I don’t think that we have the spiritual technology to do this I don’t know if you can say spiritual and technology in the same you know what sentence but that’s what it felt like and so I gave up on missions and for nine years I was in I still wanted to be in ministry and so I did some media things and and then at a time when I was director of marketing at Thomas Nelson my wife said sweetie we’re going back to Africa did you know that the Lord is calling us back and I said really but she’s always been about a year ahead of me spiritually so so we prayed about it and the Lord the Lord told us to do it to the resign and and candidly I didn’t want to a prophet probably because you know there were options that for kids to go to college and so forth and so I act actually when somebody asked me if I if I would consider coming back and doing ministry and maybe eat pastoring a church that we were a member of I I said no to them and then the next morning I had been speaking at that church for some months while we didn’t have our patent new pastor and I and so we had come back from vacation where we had heard the Lord and so I I but the night before I’d said no to what gets that God said yes to a few days earlier and so I went to help pray as people were at the front to be prayed for and all of a sudden I fell and and and just I was broken I realized that God had spoken and I had said no and so and what I sense the Lord said was and I think those are the things that maybe can hold back other Christians Christ followers is the first thing I sensed the Lord saying just it wasn’t an audible voice but it was a specific voice with specific words when did you decide that your will has ever worked better than mine and I started I wept for I don’t know if a few minutes Eric and then and then a second a second so voice just not an audible voice but I knew the words and then it said and when did you decide that I won’t take care of you and that’s when everything changed in my life oh and I went over to my brothers and said whatever this church or God wants me to do I’m going to do it so so it it was out I wouldn’t say wasted years they were wonderful years but and in it but it took from that day it took five years before we figured out a way to do it we as a church adopted a people group in Africa that there had been a hundred years of missionaries and there had never been a single church ever planted and there were three denominations working in harmony with each other I mean it was a perfect situation but in three hundred year and a hundred years nothing had happened in terms of planning a church and so that was the people group we adopted at that at the church and I can tell you a lot of things God did a lot of things out too numerous to maybe a continue talking about that except to say I’m glad to tell you that there’s sixteen thousand Christ followers among that people group now and they are taking the gospel to other Muslim people groups this was a dramatically strong Muslim people group it it’s amazing when I hear these stories because of course we the Jews are we were called to be the head not the tail but when it comes to the gospel we are the last and not the first and Paul made it clear in Romans 1:16 that he said I’m not ashamed of the gospel for it’s a power of God for salvation for all who believed to the Jew first and when Jesus said send out his disciples the first time he said don’t go to the Gentiles go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel I said to the woman I didn’t come for you I came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel yet that has become a non topped part of the book of Romans that’s just completely overlooked once a woman’s 11:22 says that God will continue in his kindness to the Gentiles provided that they continue in their kindness to the Jews and so when we look at this week it is it’s baffling to me I didn’t hear the gospel until I was 44 years old in the synagogue all my life a deep study for 20 years in the Orthodox synagogue sitting at every week twice a week for hours at length with one of the most recognized and steamed Orthodox rabbis in Atlanta Georgia and studied and studied hard and studied well in the path and pattern of my family and my grandfather my great-grandfather the rabbi and every third generation my family’s been a rabbi going back for as far as we can trace it and I didn’t know Jesus was Jewish until I was 44 years old and they said well of course you know Jesus came the Jews you never heard that I said yeah but you know it’s graffiti it’s it’s it’s an insult it was known declaration it was know thrown that he sat upon it was he was murdered he was crucified [Music] what’s that have to do with him being Jewish and so when the first time I heard the Gospel presented in the language that I understood and that was the language of the Old Testament and you didn’t have to go too far past Exodus chapter 12 to have the entire Gospel message found Genesis 22 with the binding of issac and exits chapter 12 the blood of the Lamb and heard the words behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world those two or take away to the Jewish mind are no such thing in Judaism covered yes taken away no and this was a paradigm shift that was so radical that a hung on those two words that’s what brought me to salvation that my sin could be taken away okay I knew about all the works that I had done or the contributions I was a senior executive and in hewlett-packard I lived in a seven-bedroom home on a multi acre estate if they needed money at the synagogue again money at the synagogue if they needed a room built and then I would donate for the road I lived the very philanthropic life but you know knew nothing I knew about the teachings of the rabbis but I knew nothing about God and when I began to ask questions about when when did this happen when did genesis 3:15 get fulfilled when did that happen when did the seed of the woman crush the head of the sea the serpent I’ve read it through the Old Testament thousands of times and it never happens and ever occurs when does it occur and they would just look at me and they would say well you know that’s not for you to know right now and I had to go on a four-year on my 40th birthday I left the teachings to go out and define the answers and I searched Near East Far East I had the hewlett-packard platinum American Express card and went to every nation where I could find spiritual leaders and did business there and then but always extended through the weekend and set up meetings with with Buddhists and with with tallest and and with with Hindus and and and had meetings to find out and it was only in my own neighborhood at the messianic synagogue that I ever heard the gospel and it was preached in a messianic synagogue I in a language I understood and with with with imagery and then as I began to say the New Testament all the imagery of the New Testament made complete sense to me it was all Jewish thought just cuz it was written in Greek does not mean it was expression of Greek thought it’s not a mythological book it’s not Aristotle and Plato and Socrates it’s not philosophy it’s jus its first century Judaism and we’ve lost a lot of that and in understanding that there’s a divide and where the two shall become one of Easons to were not becoming one now last 20 years milestones were just about to the million mark of the 14 million Jewish people in the world approximately 1 million now who have at least one Jewish grandparents have made a profession of faith in Jesus 1,000 Jews in Jerusalem Orthodox Jews Russian Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem two weeks ago all that saved all 1,000 in attendance the greatest day of salvation building of salvation in history from the time of Acts chapter 2 to the present day okay on that day 3,000 were saved two or three weeks ago 1,000 Jews were saved in Jerusalem at the hands of Sid Roth giving his personal testimony but as when he started to pray for healing that the response came mm-hmm you got to find the prescription that works for that community you and Glenn did this amazing project together and as as really an outsider and even though it’s 23 years of me being having a Pauline kind of call I was sent as a missionary from Atlanta Georgia to Birmingham Alabama to plant a messianic synagogue here into a Jewish community did not have a messianic synagogue and it’s a small population about 5,000 and over the course of seven years LED over 5% of the Jewish population of Birmingham to faith in Jesus and build a congregation that had 750 families 20 250 in attendance at forced services every week that’s a mega messianic operation that’s a great sized congregation for any denomination but maintain my Jewish identity and preached the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation as it was given and understand the mission field in an unusual way I was a missionary at home to a community that was not being reached because their great relationships with the local Baptist churches they’d uses each other’s facilities and time of renovation and and it was almost a social relationship but nobody would preach the gospel to the rabbi nobody to share the gospel with the rabbi they would just it was a transactional relationship you know while they were recovering from a fire a Baptist Church to use the synagogue and when they were renovating the synagogue to use the Baptist Church but that was the extent of it and I became known as the Jesus rabbi and they preached against me and gave the address and said don’t go to this place over there at on some priests Street and and you know don’t tell a Jewish person not to do something so they were the greatest advertising that I had because they told their congregation don’t go there so of course they came to check it out find out what he was talking about there’s a difference between the kingdom and the church the church is a part of the kingdom building operation it’s the assembly line if you will for the production the manufacturing the creation of the kingdom but it’s almost like taking Henry Ford’s idea of having an assembly line and doing all the Assembly of the finished product and taking it and subcontracting it out but nobody ever delivers back so that the product gets finished everybody’s are busy building their parts that they never get to ship them they never get to deliver them and therefore the product the end doesn’t ever come to pass it never gets put together and it’s becoming more and more disconnected like a pile of independent parts that are never plugged in the function all exists the the kinetic energy is all there but it’s not being applied and this is an outsider looking in is that a fair assessment of what’s going on I think so I I usually couch it in a slightly different way but I think that I think you’ve characterized it well for for me I I grew up actually in a tradition that didn’t really that sort of thought the kingdom and the church were the same thing and I think a lot of of Christians may still have that because they they may go a lifetime and never hear a sermon on them on the kingdom of God and it’s role I remember where I was sitting in seminary when our professor said for our tradition said we are one of the only churches that is a little heretical about the kingdom because we think the kingdom is a church and that’s actually probably heresy and I remember everybody went what and he said the the church exists to advance the kingdom that the kingdom of God is from it’s from Genesis the first chapter and in the creation of mankind to to be servants and stewards of God’s kingdom and in it in it and the last passages are in the last part of Revelation and it’s all Jesus talked about it that Sermon on the Mount was the values of the kingdom of God he in his the kingdom of God I used to say when I was pastoring churches I used to say the kingdom of God is upside down and backwards to everything we were told everything we know look at the look at the Beatitudes blessed are the meek they shall inherit the earth blessed are those who are persecuted for theirs is the kingdom of God and and it goes it just goes on from there and so Jesus was in every way that he could was shouting I am king you are and I’m calling you to be my stewards not servants but my friends to to advance the kingdom of God and it’s interesting that when he sent out to the disciples when he sent them out the twelve and the seventy he told them things that were very counterintuitive he gave them a vision that was an impossible vision he took ordinary people and by the way this is the same thing that we see in movements and that’s why we are calling them now our kingdom movements he took ordinary people and changed the world with with do you think that maybe Matthew and and assignment is zealot when Jesus put him out two by two when he sent him out just to make net matthew nervous I don’t you know you say it this group how could they do that then he says I’m giving you my authority you’re going to pray for people you’re going to cast out demons you’re going to go to difficult places you’re going to have to find dump but don’t worry about the money it’ll take care of itself and and and then find people of peace which by the way now we know is the way to break the cultural barriers and and trusting God for resources breaks the cash barriers and and then he you know he tells them where they’re going to go it’s obvious they’re going to be doing obedience based disciple-making and in the end he said and by the way and in Matthew he spends more past verses on this than the instructions he said it’s going to cost you you may not survive it because can know that you’re going into spiritual warfare and it’s going to be difficult and and those are the same instructions that are the instructions that everybody thought that’s so now today is looking at Matthew 10 and Luke 10 and that’s where they’re finding Jesus model absolutely works and it changes everything now that’s a little simplistic but but it’s it’s it’s this it’s the big issue it’s the big issue is it’s the kingdom of God you you reference Luke chapter 10 which is one of to me it is the restoration of the Dominion mandate it is reversing what happened in GaN Eden in the Garden of Eden when Satan usurped the authority of man and he became the prince of this earth and then in Luke 10:18 Luke 10:19 Jesus says I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven I give you the authority his disciples his Toma demon is all of us who follow as disciples of Jesus the authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and overcome all the power of the enemy proclaiming that nothing whatsoever shall harm us therefore we we have taken the Dominion back Dominion has been restored to us by our faith in Jesus which is why he says and the only reason we can grasp it is that you will do even greater than this and you think about our reach we reach absolutely millions across the globe right now 120 home churches in Pakistan are gathered around a cell phone or a tablet and watching this Pro because I get the report every week and the report says dear Papa and it comes from a bishop over 120 home congregations in Pakistan and questions about I have a teaching show that I do a prophecy show that I do where I’m the teacher for it and it’s instructional and it’s Hebrew in English and it’s it’s taking them through the Old Testament chapter by chapter verse by verse it takes five and a half years to go through the first five books and I have a program that does that every week and they gather around and they soaking in this expository in-depth understanding of connecting the Hebrew mind and the Hebrew thought with what the presentation was because it was no new Testament at the time of Jesus and people forget that and then you hear people saying we should divorce ourselves from the New Testament from the Old Testament how can you divorce yourself when everything prophetically and every hope that you have is based on Ezekiel Isaiah of genesis 3:15 of that that the conquering of the seed of the serpent of the Antichrist and the ruling and reigning of the Messiah knowing that the scepter will not depart from the line of Judah and all these things foretold if you start with Matthew you have a hundred and fifty references to the Old Testament that you’re divorced from it’s it’s it’s it’s illogical it’s it’s it’s it’s diabolical as it’s what it is we’re talking with Gary Trousdale who along with Glen sunshine put together an absolutely brilliant study and conclusions good news bad news and then better news and better ways how Jesus first entered kingdom values are transforming thousands of cultures and awakening his church it’s really embraced is that the largest number in the Bible is one that in God’s economy and in God’s mathematical formula one plus one equals one and that will become one with the father when we come one with the Messiah when we join together with the Holy Spirit the compounding of one as Jerry Truesdale and I talked the compounding of one by two brothers having unity we become jihad we become one but it’s a plural one into the largest number in the Bible and that is the goal of the singular kingdom one Kingdom made up of many parts but all coming together added together become one simply one we’re going to take a look when we return from break at some more in-depth understanding of how we can restore revive ooh and refresh the gospel message in North America and in Western Europe I take a short break and we’ll be right back the Lord meets you right where you are and sodas ignite Ignatians new live streaming outlets you can now watch revealing the truth revealing the Bible and prophecy revealed simulcast live each Monday through Friday from 10 a.m. to 1 o’clock p.m. Central Standard Time on YouTube live 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and you remember the Ice Capades a lot of flashing lights twirling loud music and twirling and very entertaining but you weren’t transformed and I see the stage and I see the CDs being released by worship teams and I see multi-site campuses where people are vying almost like the minor leagues in baseball they’re relegated to a branch campus and they’re hoping to make it to the big show where they can be on the stage and they call it a stage and it’s you know take off your shoes you’re on holy ground and worship isn’t worship Jack Hayford looked me in the eye and he said to me Eric it’s an encounter not an experience if your people aren’t transformed by worship they have not worshipped this was right in my face saying have you raised up your community to know what they were called to do as worshippers of God do they know how to worse and they don’t and I’ve been to every denomination except to preach in a Catholic Church I’ve gone to the highest high of the highest high church of the Episcopal the highest highs of the Lutheran the highest lies the methodist and worshiped real transformational worship it’s it’s I’m just not seeing it in a lot of places what has caused this shift is it the consolidation and mega churches is that everybody wants to blame the Millennials but I look at them as the new Copernicus they’ve got a different thought process they want relevance they want to make sure that these are applied and rational and they call hypocrisy for what it is that the sea and surf on Sunday but see you in a bar on Tuesday night because that’s where they go to meet friends and sit over a beer and have a conversation they see you there and they see you drunk and they say well what’s the benefit of going to church if that’s what you are like so what are you seeing well we have a term in the world of disciple making movements we we call there’s there’s churches that we we say can be elephant churches and and so and then we talk about rabid churches and then you can do some fun things mathematically about how quickly rabbits reproduce and how quickly mega church is free produced and so I think the problem one of the problems we have here we we certainly there’s the issue of secularism of a privatized religion though it’s sort of me and God and I’ll show up at church and it’s also the anti supernaturalism of the of the season even churches that I think I have a have a tradition as a high view of the Holy Spirit are struggling in many cases so and our church is I will tell you that you know we have been had the privilege of seeing about 1.8 million people come to faith in the last 15 years most of them in the unreached and unengaged people groups and in about 30 percent 80 percent of them were were former Muslim and so so we’ve we’ve learned a lot about simple churches so when when we talk about a definition of the church we we have a really simple definition I’m gonna read it sauce saying right it’s a group of a local group of baptized believers who gathered regularly for worship for nurture or fellowship and who depart the gathering endeavoring to obey all the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ in order to transform families and communities that’s the definition of church we haven’t and sometimes people are expected and our average church size is about 25 people 25 to 27 people around the world and in some Muslim areas it’s only about the number that you can put safely in a bedroom or a parlor 7 8 10 something like that and so if you if you if we’re finding that when you start churches from a point of where people are already obedience oriented you don’t have to then transformation comes and transformation is the power that draws people I have a I have a list here that I’ve we made of the transformations that we’ve seen in Muslim households and what it what it looks like anyway I’ll it’s things like this men don’t beat their wives anymore that that in our getting off of drugs that that people are no longer holding grudges against other clans or other other groups we’ve in in one country in Africa we’ve had now over thirty this is a country where I happen to speak on the major language and so I’ve heard this in my my own when I was there where people were Muslim communities would come in and they would invade they would say we want to happen we that we didn’t like this village this community we hated them we were enemies and they’ve all become Christ followers and now we really like them and we want to be like them and so will you send us the storytellers now which would be telling the stories in the Old Testament and the Hebrew Gospels and the New Testament and you make the amazing thing is they stopped counting at 35 and I have met some of those and it ended the answer the thing that they saw was those people weren’t nice but now they’re wonderful now that’s the attraction old model that’s Jesus attraction o model not the not the quality of the worship team and the the quality of the message that’s transformation and so that’s why we say in order to transform families in communities and that’s what’s happening and you have to do through disciple-making this was go out this was the Great Commission it was to go out and make disciples it wasn’t go out and save as a matter of fact the model in Acts chapter 2 the last line of Acts chapter 2 says it all and God added to their numbers daily those being saved it wasn’t they were about the business of the Father making disciples by studying the teachings and sharing together and having fellowship together and God took care of adding to the numbers and so I think we we’ve kind of got this the responsibility were responsible for saving people or we’re not responsible for saving people in the least that’s that’s that’s God’s job is to move within them we’re an instrument and a tool to go out and do exactly what we were instructed to do go out and make disciples and so disciple making is a big part of the emphasis of what contained in here is that that’s what transforms a community is when you have disciples in the marketplace you have disciples in the neighborhood you have disciples in the shopping centers you have disciples in Walmart that’s that’s where it shines and today in North America you can’t tell who’s a believer and who’s not a believer it’s not because they wear a cross that doesn’t say you’re a believer that just says you you are not Jewish there’s all that sense to me is you’re not about your you’re obviously not Jewish so it does it no longer is a distinguishing factor I think there was a point where it was and that you could expect kind word gentle response and and not this frustration in the line of you having to do your own checkout and complaining and grumbling and stomping your feet or getting upset with the lady in front of you because she doesn’t have her payment ready in time and you know we’re not immune for the pressures of the world but we are supposed to be inoculated from responding to the pressures of this world in the same way that the world does and that’s the sign of what’s going to transform and Jesus said it best he said he said well I’m in the world on the light of the world now you’re the light of the world let your light so shine that man would see your good works and bring glory to your father in heaven so we’re supposed to be a light in the darkness and be a beacon that people are drawn to so the in your analysis disciple-making church planting is all critical to changing the statistics which are in decline in north america absolutely well let me maybe I can just sort of address what happens when we when we see movements happen because the the process is a process by which people are almost like disciple to conversion instead of converted and then disciple they they start from learning from the very first time that they read the passages in Genesis and are in our creation to Christ we spend a lot of time in Genesis maybe if maybe 25% of the time of the lessons are from Genesis building on the foundation but in every passage there is there’s a the the the groups will do this when the word comes up when it’s time for Bible study someone will say let’s someone read the passage maybe read it two or three times and then they’ll say let’s see if we can all say it together we so everybody’s got it in their mind by the way it’s easier for people in the global south to do that and it is for highly literate countries very much different the more difficult that and so the second thing is so what what do you learn about God in this passage so and then there’s what did you learn about G about yourself in this passage the third thing is and if this is true what what would God want you to do differently in your life what would change in your life this week if you then put this passage into action now that’s the point we never get to in in in North America and Europe and and so they at that point you do you’re not creating legalism you’re creating a model that allows people to get into the heart of God and look at their themselves and say I think I need to do this and then they’re say okay who are you going to share this with this week and so now you you’re absolutely sharing something that you have learned and has changed your life so so it’s an it’s a phenomenal sort of thing that creates amazing transformation you know that’s such simple right that that’s that simple approach is what’s necessary it’s not this big show it is the examination of Scripture its life application and how it can change you and then in changing you how does that domino effect to all the people that come into contact with you and that’s a model that is essential for the restoration of the church and for the sanctity and security of the body that they have a foundation of truth to stand on which is God’s Word in God’s Word alone Jerry Truesdale co-author of the kingdom on least want you to visit igniting a nation calm you’ll see today’s show calendar right there on the homepage you’ll see Jerry Truesdale name click on it it’ll take you to a link to get this book and if you have a heart for the church your church your community your small group your heart to serve and to help launch discipleship programs within your church this is a tremendous resource to understand what and how and what resources are available to you Jay Truesdale thank you so much for this hour with us here on revealing the truth thank you god bless you my friend where do you short break and when we come back we’ll bring you the next edition of revealing the truth.

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Shalom and welcome the season of revealing the truth where we cover the headlines the heart lines and biblical truth I’m your host messianic rabbi Erik Walker Christianity is growing faster than at any time in history so why is the church in Europe and America’s stagnant or declining and what will it take for that to change those of us living in the global north are observing an ever-increasing cascade of spiritual discouragement and tragedy in our world war brothers and sisters in the global south are experiencing today what Jesus meant when he said the kings and prophets longed to experience the kingdom coming in such a way and then they’re in their new book the kingdom Unleashed the co-author spent three years researching why only a few such movements are happening in North America and Western Europe they identify historical and worldview issues that hinder kingdom movements in the West central to every movement of the core values of the kingdom of God which Jesus proclaim and modeled throughout his ministry interviews with many leading movement catalysts illuminate the biblical principles paradigms and practices that Jesus mandated it for his disciples by returning to these we can revitalize Christianity in the global north and see the kingdom unleash Glenn’s sunshine is a professor of history at Central Connecticut State University a senior fellow at the Coulson Center for Christian worldview and the founder and president of every square inch– ministries he’s an award-winning author and has tossed seminars on worldview church history and theology across the u.s. and in Europe and Asia here to represent the writing team of Gerry Trousdale and Glen sunshine is Glen sunshine to talk about their new book the kingdom unleashed how Jesus’s first century kingdom values are transforming thousands of cultures and awakening his church Glen sunshine welcome to revealing the truth thank you for having me Glen first of all we want to just take a moment and pray for Jerry Jerry had surgery yesterday and is home recovering and hopefully there’s a good report to come out of all this and we just lift him up in prayer and miss him not being able to be a part of the show today but asked our audience to enter into prayer for the speedy recovery of Jerry trowel tell but you’re here to represent and I know that you will represent well the concept of the kingdom unleash I don’t think a week has gone by in the last three years that we have not been very vocal on this program of the rampant decline in the fundamental expository teaching of the gospel that Paul preached the Jesus that Paul preached and the Holy Spirit that Paul preached and the warning that he gave to the body that said if you hear a different Jesus than what I preach to you if you hear a different Holy Spirit than I preach to you if you hear a gospel different than I preached to you run get out go a different way and what’s happened is in just a fast summation as we’ve seen the father relegated to a supporting role and the Holy Spirit has now been set off as a I equate it to a diamond engagement ring it’s lust for it’s beautiful it’s delivered it’s put on every picture that you see it’s there catching the light and then the wedding comes and that rings replaced with the gold band and the engagement ring goes back in the Box the box goes back in the drawer and all the power and all that was tied into that engagement ring is now tucked away and never used again and that’s kind of my definition of the modern North American church that I’ve preached in and I tried to take that ring back out and restore the father back to his role because Jesus did not come out of the womb carrying a briefcase with his plan of salvation and so what drove you to want to embrace hopefully you and Jerry were as disturbed as I am about the condition of the North America in the Western Church well for a good part of my adult life I came to Christ as a 13 year old but by the time I got to college I began to be exposed to some ideas that I hadn’t run into before about the kingdom of God and what the kingdom means and specifically the idea that you know we proclaim in our hymns that Jesus is Lord of all so the question is what is not included in all and the answer of course is nothing which means that if we mean what we’re singing in our hems then Jesus has to be Lord of everything in our lives our jobs our families our neighborhood our recreation our health all of these things and and this lack of a kingdom vision has been sort of a major theme in almost everything I’ve done in my ministry is since really since I got into grad school and so operating from that framework I encountered in an earlier book by Jerry called miraculous movements I found out about what’s going on in in that case it was focused exclusively on Muslim West Africa and the stories he told about the way the gospel was growing there really caught my attention and I met Jerry I gave him a few of my books he read them and he thought I had the things he didn’t have to complete the book he it was really his vision for this book originally and he thought I could plug the gaps that he had in his knowledge so that’s how we teamed up when you talk about that it’s really very interesting because the modern church would tell you that much of what we read in the New Testament lived and died in the New Testament 7 AD we we are confused by prophecy were confused by healing were confused by deliverance were confused by power and anointing were confused by the Dominion mandate which was given to us in the Garden of Eden and then restored to us by Jesus in Luke 10:18 and Luke 10:19 it’s exactly what he was doing he was saying what you lost in the garden I now give back to you simple summation of that giving you the authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and overcome all of the power the enemy nothing whatsoever shall harm you so Paul comes along and he says our battle is not against flesh and blood but it’s against principalities and so we think we’re just at this constant war in this constant battle and that we have glorified Satan we’re about to October the 31st give greatest glory of any country in the world to the demonic into the dark side of life and edify it when that we’re supposed to be bearers of light and bearers of salt and we don’t understand and there is such important understanding I’m actually searching in the Hebrew text right now because there’s something that that that is it was just so important [Music] and I’m just gonna have to summarize it for you is in either Genesis chapter 40 or 41 Joseph is called upon by the cupbearer and the Baker to offer an interpretation to a dream and he says only God can interpret the dream and so God gifted in that moment Joseph the ability to interpret his dream Joseph was no he no he was not a dream interpreter he couldn’t carry the business card dream interpreter he was appointed and anointed at that time to offer that the same verbage and references when Pharaoh and he is anointed and appointed at that time with that gift to give an interpretation now we see the same thing happened to Daniel and Daniel’s not he that can’t carry a business card his dream interpreter he can’t hang a shingle as dream interpreter but given for a time and for a season and foreign moment and for an opportunity he was imbued endowed with this gift so we now have the New Testament and we say okay well there’s no more office of the Prophet because the Elijah’s are gone and the Jeremiah go there are no Elijah’s and Jeremiah’s and Isaiah’s of the New Testament so the office of the prophet poof it’s gone and so that means prophecy no longer exists so here we’re operating 2,000 years thinking prophecy doesn’t exist when in fact prophecy is is is unfolding in front of our very eyes and you and I are supposed to be the reporters of or at certain times when people talk to us was sometimes we’re actually given and deposited for that moment in time in that conversation that particular gifting okay to give a word of knowledge or to give some insight or to speak into the life of someone that’s going to bring about a kingdom shift for that person because now it’s not kingdom operating and unity it’s only kingdom operating in you and kingdom operating in me and King and so this was not how God wanted it he wanted it to be kingdom unity but for 2,000 years we’ve been kingdom just unified we’ll come back together again at the return of Messiah okay I can I can see that I look at the at the Hebrew text behold how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell together in unity and and the significance of the number one and the compounding of the number one Acts chapter two how they all were one they were one in agreement they were Yahud they were completely together one and there was power in that and we’ve lost that power and now we’re taking people and we’re categorizing them as as charlatans who are operating in pursuit of exactly the instructions of paul who said listen speaking in tongues it’s a very rare gift he said not everybody has this but you should still seek after the higher things not everybody can be a prophet but you should seek after the higher things not everybody could be a teacher but seek after the higher things we’re not supposed to be complacent in our belief we’re supposed to seek after and if we seek after maybe in that moment in that conversation God will anoint us and appoint us to operate in that gift in a moment in a period in a season doesn’t make me a prophet as a matter of fact the government says I’m a non-profit but you understand I’m saying we’ve got this so jumbled around in 38,000 combination of Christianity and doctrine which goes against the Word of God and it becomes how I interpret imply it until you can and can’t either you’re a biblical Eve this book or you’re a doctrinal I want to say doctrinal dictator or a theological terrorist when you start picking and choosing the application of the Word of God maybe I’m a little harsh in my assessment but I see prayer in China and South Korea and when they have a prayer meeting and it goes into the fourth day it goes into the fifth day and you make the comment man you guys been in prayer for five days ago yeah and that a great start I were an hour on Sunday and we start squirming after 48 minutes what’s going on with us well you’ve identified a long list of things that fit neatly into a couple of worldview categories that really I think are at the heart of what’s gone wrong with the church in the global north let’s start with anti supernaturalism I mean it it’s a strange thing to say about Christians but by and large the church in the global north really has an anti supernatural bias which we bought into from the culture so to take prayer as an example I read somewhere about a bar in a survey that said that the average Christian prays something like four minutes a day including grace at meals that is conclusive proof that we don’t believe in prayer because if we did we would do it so there’s this this anti supernatural sense and a skepticism and a you know a an assumption that when anything out of the normal happens that it must be a charlatan we’ve got the problem of well that your example of the 38,000 denominations there are a significant number of Christian organizations that are more interested in building their empire than they are in building their Kingdom the goal is to build the kingdom of God it’s not to build our Empire and as a result we need to be working together it’s worth noting that there’s almost nowhere in the world where movements are taking place where there’s a single organization working you know in Isaiah God says I am the Lord I will not share my glory with another and if there’s just one organization that’s triggering one of these these huge movements it’s too easy to pat ourselves on the back so God tends to give those when his people work together there you know there there are there a number of other areas those are just two that that jump out that that you’re smoking the other part of it is so that we hidden behind a lot of this is the fact that we’re in a fluent culture we have a lot of wealth and God warned Israel when you occupy the land when you’re in houses you didn’t build and you’ve got farms that you didn’t plant don’t say I got this myself gross paraphrase there but we need to take that warning seriously we need to realize that the blessings we have are just that they’re blessings from God and we need to realize that it’s not by our own might or our own power but by the spirit that the kingdom advances and that in turn means we have to be much more biblical and we have to be much more prayerful because we tend to rely on our wealth and our consultants and to determine what we’re gonna do and what is it or is not possible rather than realizing that we have the resources of Almighty God at our disposal for His purposes so we limit ourselves to what we think is possible we do things the way our consultants tell us to do rather than doing them the way scripture tells us to do and when you go to the global South you have none of these problems like you have different organizations that are working together and they’re very careful about doing that they’ve got a very strong supernatural worldview they understand the necessity of that they understand the nature of spiritual warfare far better than we do because they live it and they don’t have resources that they can fall back on other than those that God Himself provides and these are some of the key reasons why what we are seeing is happening happening there is happening there but not here it just grieves my heart so much when I hear things like and I don’t want to get scholarly or academic or Hebraic or Greek and in this but we kind of have to praise and worship in America it’s one word it is one word comprised of three fast songs and one slow song and that is praise and worship in the Hebrew there are seven words very distinct which describe what is praise and one word which is very distinct which describes worship and there is no way that you can worship according to the Word of God and King David said it best he said search me O Lord and see if there is anything within me so us looking at a screen together 70 thousand of us in arena reading the words on a screen and saying that we have worshipped God because we sang in unison and we sat down and we never once examined our heart and our relationship with God we have now taken and we have made it and and I call it the Christ Capades we have made the the Dorothy Hamels now people are watching the flashing lights and the and the performance we even have it’s such that people call it the stage I want to just pull my hair out you don’t understand take off your shoes you are standing on holy ground do you not appreciate the fact that the office of the Prophet is to be filled by the pastor today he is the one who is the prophet of the congregation he’s the one that God is going to speak through and if all you’re doing is entertainment and having having no encounter no transformation dr. Jack Hayford said to me said Eric if if if if if worship doesn’t change you you have not worshiped period wasn’t it he said you were you were put on this earth or you yellow team you hoodie Jesus you’re punished earth will be a worshipper of God do you and your congee ssin know how to worship God he said it is not by reading the words on a screen it is silence it is turning within it is to the point of opening the altar and the weeping and the the breaking and the humbling and people look at you and say well that would take too long how long’s that service going to be well my services were over three hours long and people stayed Mixter hour to have coffee and food and not one and they came back at eleven o’clock then next one of them came back eleven o’clock the next morning to do it again because they wanted a real encounter with God they didn’t want to have an encounter with me they wanted an encounter with God and so we think about the presence of God if we have to open our buildings and usher in and vite every time I hear the words Holy Spirit you are welcome here like what did you do to make your Holy Spirit leave that you have to invite it back why do you lock up your building so that people can’t come there there during the day and Paul wrote to Timothy until I returned commit yourself to the daily public reading scripture if I walk in your sanctuary is there a man behind a microphone with his Bible open reading straight out of the Bible 24 hours a day seven days a week are you doing it even for an hour a day are you doing it at all and we have this one-year reading plan so what it never told us to read the Bible it said study not read so is this what we’ve gotten – we’ve gotten into the the superficial because what the cost our time we become too valuable too important for ourselves that we will not humble ourselves in the sight of the Lord and believe that he will lift us up and raise us even higher than we can lift up ourselves yeah I think that what you’re pointing to is another example of the way the culture is really shaped the church either than the other way around what we’ve got in a lot of contemporary worship services is a short concert followed by a TED talk and I mean you know that that’s harsh putting it that way but functionally that that’s a lot of what happens and there isn’t any real sense of challenging people with what it means to stand before a holy God what it means to have an encounter with the holy God and we get there again because we ignore Scripture we do things the way it seems right to us to do it the way we’re comfortable with the way the particular audience we’re trying to attract what we think will attract them oh we do all things those ways rather than looking to scripture and saying okay what does this tell us about how we should be doing what we should be doing what does worship look like in Scripture we never ask a question so you know I’m absolutely with you there the the whole issue really comes back over and over again to what did God tell us in his word how did he tell us we’re to act you know the entire concept of discipleship as I’m sure you are well aware is built around the idea of obedience what is disciple does as he learns to do what his master is doing and he does that by following his masters direction so that’s essentially what a disciple did we think of discipleship in terms of study you know memorize these scriptures study this learn this go through the Westminster Confession whatever we think that’s what discipleship is it isn’t discipleship is your life so yeah we miss out on all of that and it leaves us in a situation where spiritually we are weak and we are failing I just noticed yesterday there was a report coming out of Gordon Conwell I believed it no this one was pew 10 years ago 77% of Americans self-identified as Christians right now it’s 65 you know we’re we’re down I’m pretty sure with 65 we’re down something like 12% in the space of one decade it’s because the churches are not frankly doing their job they are not presenting God as he is and as he wants to be presented and as a result people are leaving something they think his Christianity but really isn’t I have so many questions for you that we’re going to go to break so that we can keep this dialogue going or talking with Glenn sunshine who along with Gary Trousdale wrote a new book called the kingdom unleash how Jesus’s first century Kingdom values are transforming thousands of cultures and awakening his church this is our desire and there are many of us who have this desire for revival for a reawakening for an explosion of faith an explosion of disciples and almost with that comes the implosion of the mega church and takes people back into more of a personal relationship with God as opposed to a relationship with a screen or a hologram or a multi-campus environment and the most powerful line of scripture that comes to me in this scenario is the last line of Acts chapter 2 where it says and God added to the numbers daily those being saved we are not the Savior God is the one who saves it is our actions is us acting in unity is our living a sacrificial life sacrificing our agenda for his agenda not poverty not silence not these vows of man 4 it says make no vowel but your yes be yes let your nobody know but to take on God’s agenda which is main clear through the teachings of Jesus that I might walk in his footsteps and the disciples could only walk in his footsteps for three years three and a half years we get to do it for a lifetime if we so choose and that is such an incredible blessing and as a Jew who came to faith at 44 23 years ago I can tell you the life-changing difference of walking in his footsteps than walking in the footsteps of a man we’re gonna take a short break and when we come back we’re gonna rejoin Glenn’s sunshine and talk more about the kingdom Unleashed we’ll be right back the Lord meets you right where you are and sodas ignite 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here two of the fastest growing churches kingdoms movements in the world Iran and China we’re connected with 120 new home churches in Pakistan where were broadcast live prime time in the Middle East because I saw us committing the great omission instead of the Great Commission we were preaching to everybody except for the Jews and the Muslims and so when we created this network and this programming we said we will not we will actually make them on the priority is to the Jew first Romans 1:16 and so if we’re gonna reach the Jew first in Israel we’re not going to stop the broadcast at the border at the at the Jordan Rift Valley and we’re going to take the broadcast throughout the Middle East and Africa and Asia into Europe and all the way through and around the world and so we broadcast 24 hours a day seven days a week and I’m excited I’m disappointed at my fellow Americans who have taken for granted this incredible gift and and I look at the parable of the sheep and the goats and I see a goat nation and I don’t know that half our audience even understands what I mean by that but I know you know what I mean by that and that’s part of what you talked about in the kingdom Unleashed is you we’ve broken this down into five sections great news and bad news five categories of spiritual malpractice what in Jesus name is a Christian to do Kingdom values and the lifestyle they require thinking and acting like Jesus did and we need to understand that we have answers given to us in Scripture we’re just not applying we’re not at one asking the question we’re just taking for granted that what we’re being told is true now when it was Walter Cronkite on the news we could believe it but it’s not Walter Cronkite anymore and can we actually believe universally across North America and the Western Church Western European Church can we actually believe that every pastor is delivering a biblically sound message well I think it’s pretty obvious that we can’t they’re not but I’d like to back up a little bit and talk about the Great Commission rather than great omission here I’d like you to think about how it is the strategy that the church is following even where they’re trying to fulfill the Great Commission even where they’re focused on evangelism what is the strategy that’s typically used it involves getting seminary or at least Bible College trained people out there to start new churches right okay let’s take a look at the United States about 330 million people hear of those 330 million in round numbers about 20% attend church regularly regularly is defined really loosely here so that means 80 percent dote that’s about 206 four million people if we were going to reach this 264 million people what would it take well if we’re thinking about church plants the average church in America is 184 people in it to keep the numbers simple let’s say we’re gonna shoot four churches that average 264 we need a million new churches it costs a quarter of a million dollars to plant one church on the average in the United States so what we’re dealing with at that point is a quarter of a trillion dollars to plant the churches but you’re not done because now we need a million people to graduate from Bible College we don’t have the capacity to do that so what we need to do is to start more Bible colleges and then at the cost of let’s be conservative and say $10,000 per person to get their degree that’s what it will take to train this is a failure model it can’t be done even in the United States even just looking at the unchurched in the United States we cannot possibly accomplish the Great Commission using the kind of model that we’re using and a lot of the reason for that is because frankly the model isn’t biblical we are you know we were talking about effects of cultural worldview I talked about anti supernaturalism let’s add secularism and secularism there are a lot of different definitions of it but one of the basic ones says that church and state shouldn’t interfere with each other but that goes pretty quickly to the church should have no role in public life Christianity should have no role in public life if you want to be a believer you can but keep it to yourself it becomes privatized what is the gospel that the typical of angelical Church teaches the gospel is about personal salvation personal morality maybe and perhaps some hot-button issues like abortion in other words it’s a largely privatized gospel we’re preaching a secular gospel a secularized gospel but because we’ve lost our king division but Glenn our actual history the birth of this nation 1770s the birth of this nation the biggest fear that England had was the black robe regiment the black robe regimen were the pastors in the pulpit who were speaking out about issues and mobilizing the people to become aware of what persecution they were facing in religious freedom religious expression in the abolition of a state religion so that they could have freedom to be a part and that required the public we were to become the influencers we were called we had were given a mantel by God if all leadership is God appointed it’s God appointed as his messengers to bring into the world so there would be changed in the construct of the community and we were the ones who were supposed to be the ones to be the catalyst for change and if I hear one more person tell me about 501c3 restrictions there has not been a single court case ever no suit has ever been brought to bear the United States government in our entire history under the 501c3 laws that anybody has violated them the only restriction that we know of that applies is that I cannot endorse a candidate from a pulpit but the minute that I step out of the pulpit I can endorse anybody I want but I can’t be doing it as as as the the religious spiritual leader of a congregation saying you need to vote for this candidate but I can walk now and I can have a cup of coffee with you and they say hey who you voting for in the next election actually I’m a trump guy and you’re perfectly fine you’re perfectly legitimate but that they planted this artificial fear and the seminary’s of plants artificially don’t talk about these things because that’s going to polarize and that’s going to make it where my goodness Jesus was an equal opportunity offender it’s absolutely yes the again we’ve lost the Kingdom vision if Jesus is Lord of all our politics included in all answers yes because everything is included in all so so political issues social issues cultural issues we are in a state right now in America that is unprecedented literally in history in many ways we are gleefully the culture is gleefully running away from objective observable realities and if the church doesn’t take a stand and say no who’s going to our job is to speak the truth and love yes we’re supposed to do it in love but it’s truth that were to be speaking and we need to be doing this since we just simply aren’t and like said this applies across the board in a whole range of things we’ve reduced the gospel we’ve adopted all kinds of non biblical methods for growing the church or expanding the kingdom or whatever term you want to use here we’ve just frankly lost it you know in in so many ways which is why the church here are so powerless is it too late I would say no and the reason I would say no is I’m a historian and when I take a look at what England looked like in the year Oh 1770 1775 it was this was a period that was as bad worse in some ways than anything we’re facing now 25% of the young women in London were prostitutes you know all kinds of animal cruelty bear-baiting things like that were just commonplace it was a culture that had devalued human life and it coarsened to such a degree that it looked frankly it I think I would have looked at it and thought it was irredeemable and yet because there were a number of Christian leaders who said we are not going to tolerate this we are going to fight this and we’re going to fight this with everything that we’ve got they completely turned around the entire culture of Britain the most famous example of this is the abolition of the slave trade and then slavery itself usually credited to Wilberforce it was very very important but he was part of a much larger team with what is needed are people who are willing to risk reputation and risk ridicule maybe even risk livelihood to stand faithfully to God’s calling and if we do that then things can turn around it’s so astounding so astounding to me that the the Truett kathy’s the Hobby Lobby family the in-and-out burger family these are all faith-based businesses with a fully exposed expression of faith and I’ve just named three of the most successful companies two of which are closed on Sunday that that would defy every Harvard Business School model and say that against the competition you would fail if you were a 1/7 open to 1/7 less than your competition and yet God in His infinite blessing has given them because their faithfulness why are we not seeing that model replicated why are we not seeing that becoming the standard what is holding us back because I see that as a great model for success okay I want to be successful I want to reach I want all the blessings of God I want Benny Hinn ISM I you know I I I walked in and and I actually do believe in the prosperity gospel and you go you do I said yeah I’m spiritually prosperous I am more spirit sleep prosperous I have eternal life and God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but he sent us them the world to save the world so I’m saved I’m redeemed I don’t understand before the judgment-seat and get rewards as opposed to punishment Wow that’s prosperity okay not airplanes so I’ve written him said hey sell one of those airplanes and please send it the proceeds to us because there’s a lot we can do in Africa and Asia and in India I can build 25 or 30 orphanages on the Ganges River and take care of some of the 30 million orphan problems why don’t we want to replicate the business models of the Christian believers who take us to this took a stand and and they began they were the salmon swimming upstream and they spawned and they prospered because they took a stand for the Lord why are we not using that as the business model and saying go for it do it God will bless that well I think the answer is what I said before we’ve got a secularized vision of the gospel it’s about personal salvation maybe personal morality and a few other issues but other than that it really doesn’t speak to any other area of life that’s what whether we admit it or not that’s what we believe and so the net result is Christian businessmen are unaware of how it is that the gospel should impact their life but how it should impact their business would they just really don’t know it they don’t understand because we’re not teaching it and you’re right when you do things God’s Way things tend to go better it also means you’re going to generate a lot of opposition look at a bunch of the amount of hatred that chick-fil-a gets right but in general you’re going to be much better off doing things God’s Way Clinton is going yeah yeah nobody teaches it right Glenn there’s a bit of an historian you and I both know that the Bible specifically only addresses three continents Asia Africa and Europe I’ve asked myself for many many years is there any meaning to that it’s very significance to that and when I take a look at the millennial reign and I take a look at their definition and Ezekiel as to what the Temple Mount will be fifty square miles in the highest mountain I know that there’s going to be a renovation of the earth and I take a look at the global map and I see that the borders of North and South America line up very neatly with the borders of Africa and Europe and that it could very well be a global renovation and maybe that’s when we meet Jesus and the clouds that I have to look at all the ways and all of the different options as to what all this means but one thing that I do know for sure about America and mentioned or not mentioned as long as we adhere to Genesis 12 and 3 our nation is going to prosper and that is I will bless those that bless Israel and I will curse those that curse is Robert now 37 top 37 denominations all at the highest level believe in replacement theology they believe that the church has replaced Israel in the eyes of God and that the inheritance will come to them and the Jews will be excluded because we one rejected Jesus and the Catholic Church up until 1973 literally blamed us as then accused us as the murders of Jesus I live with that for 21 years of my life of being called a Christ killer and now when people ask me where I was when this happened I always asking my amaya suspect because you know where were you when when the Challenger blew out what what am i a suspect you know I’ve become very defensive about this because of that but America America is not a spiritual leader as a matter of fact in Jacksonville Florida right now a mega church is dismantling itself and turning it into a discipleship Center and dr. Michael Heizer has left bridge logos and is leaving to become the Chancellor of this new seminary not a seminary but a discipleship Center taking a congregation of 30 or 40,000 and their huge campus environment and turning it into centers of Education to develop discipleship because the pastor there in Jacksonville said the megachurch model is not biblical it’s not meaning the standard of me sending out disciples I’m just filling pews and actually other congregations are closing their doors because their people are migrating over to us and we’re having a negative impact on this I see changes like that which give me a great deal of hope that there are people who have that vision we’ve got about a minute left and and I hate that because this is a topic that is so important that I would love to cover it more but what what can we do those they’re listening and who will hear this in North America what can we do I would say that the two things that I would list first are prayer we need to get serious about our prayer life you know the average Americans attention span right now is eight point three seconds a goldfish has an attention span of 9.2 we need to get serious about prayer focusing our mind being able to really dedicate ourselves in that area and secondly we need a new way of approaching Scripture basically what we need to do you know that the bane of every inductive Bible study I know is application what do we do with this we need to learn how to obey Scripture we need to understand that discipleship isn’t about knowledge it’s about life we need to find ways of approaching Scripture that are life changing that affect how we see ourselves how we see the world around us and how we act in it there’s there’s a great approach that’s listed in Kingdom Unleashed it’s called discovery Bible study you can look it up you can find instructions for doing it it’s a great way to start so those would be the two things I’ve come up with right away I strongly strongly recommend this read the kingdom Unleashed how Jesus’s first century Kingdom values are transforming thousands of cultures and awaking his church if you are here in North America if you’re in Europe if you are in a community doesn’t matter North America South America doesn’t matter where you are if you’re looking to see revival your hope is to see the gospel advance you’re hoping to see transformation through the Word of God this is a book you must read in order to understand the magnitude the depth the breadth and the opportunity and it is a book filled with good news that there is a way to turn this ship and turn it to the right way and that is back to the Lord Glen sunshine thank you thank you for sharing this incredible work with us and thank Jerry as well tell them our prayers for a very swift healing are with him and the family and we appreciated it very much well thank you I’ll be sure to do that thank you thank you for having me thank you we’re gonna take a short break and when we come back we’ll bring you the next edition of revealing the truth.

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