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Nancy Hicks

October 22, 2019 @ 10:00 am - 11:00 am CDT

Author of:
Meant to Live: Living in Light of the Good News

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Interview Transcript

Note: transcript was automatically generated by YouTube, so there may be typographical, gramattical and spelling errors.

Shalom and welcome this edition of revealing the truth we cover the headlines the heart lines and biblical truth I’m your host messianic rabbi Eric Walker inspirational communicator Nancy Hicks describes four camps of Christians who wallow in the bad news our fallenness while disgruntled Christians and non-christians alike are watching and thinking if that’s what it means to be a Christian no thanks frankly these versions of the gospel aren’t good so those watching are left wondering how we live in a new book meant to live she offers a vision on humanity’s calling and a way to live a genuine life gloriously into the good news Nancy combines personal stories with biblical wisdom and offers a revisit of the gospel she offers a fresh view on humanity’s glorious scene of the gospel and an honest diagnosis of the four main camps often found in the church she helps readers identify an honest assessment of self her book is a practical guide to living in light of the gospel and is inspired and energized focused of the core calling in Christian lives Nancy Nancy Hicks is an inspirational communicator who currently attends a non-denominational Church in William Pennsylvania her mission is to raise up women around the globe by igniting and equipping them as a former honor spokesperson for QVC she inspired millions of viewers to embrace beauty in life in 2017 she said goodbye to QVC to give her full attention to this ministry a native of Canada’s she now has an American passport lives in Wayne Pennsylvania with her husband cam loves sporting her bold red lipstick here to talk about her new book meant to live living in the light of the good news is Nancy Hicks Nancy welcome to revealing the truth pure pleasure to be with you our numbers of levels we’re delighted to have you and you know what shade red is well this one’s a little bit of a berry you know it’s funny we laugh about the red lipstick but in true the bursts that the Lord gave me so I always wear red lipstick and at QVC that the makeup artists would always come in and say on or I go into them the answer we got a new read for you Oh Nancy we love this new read for you and you know what I’ll tell you god wastes nothing and the verse that God gave to me was the very last verse of the book of Acts and it says about Paul the Apostle Paul boldly and without hindrance he but I put a she in there preached the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ it’s a bold thing I think it’s about Proclamation and it’s always been my thing so there you go all of us have to have an identity and that’s a signature I’m surprised there’s not you know the you might seal it with a kiss and then sign your name on the book but before we get into this book and we get into the what I consider to be the worst thing that ever happened to Jesus which is Christianity and I say that as respectfully as I can to my peers but revival is breaking out all over the world in America and North America is asleep we have the Christ Capades and that’s exactly what I call it we spend an hour on Sunday watching people do the twirls and the flashing lights and it’s beautifully on the surface and they have the double twists and the flip and then the the just amazing and it’s it’s just it’s riveting that tens of thousands of people’s eyes are glued to a screen and it’s no different than the Ice Capades it’s no different than going to an entertainment show and then you get a message and the message takes you right along the surface and continues that speed and oh and awe and you ask the question so how was the message on Sunday it was amazing it was life-changing I can’t even put into words how how much it touched man sir well that sounds great tell me what it was about well I don’t exactly remember what them what it was about but I just know that I was just so moved and I my life has changed because of it well but what was the scripture what was what was it based on well I don’t remember but but I remember he had a great story about being on the fourth T at the golf course and a conversation he had with one of the guys he was with I said what was it was a biblical conference no it was just it was just like a you know and I’m I’m thinking to myself you know I hear this so often that the word it’s supposed to be about the word people I’m trying to get the channel it’s not History Channel it may be History Channel ancient aliens is the number one rated television show on cable on this particular network and it’s about UFOs and aliens now people want things supernatural I can’t imagine something more supernatural than something that’s 2,000 years old and beyond and before that way before that so five thousand to two thousand years in our hands has not been touched in 2,000 years yet we still live with it and live by it that’s supernatural that’s wrong and I want to see more of that you know it’s one thing to to read it right the the living the written word of God but the the Living Word of God Jesus the Christ and his spirit in his people now I want to walk it out I want to walk this out I do not want to live a life talking about this anymore I don’t want to look at another follower of Christ I mean you know I sound impatient God is so very patient and kind isn’t he – both of us thank you God for your grace even as we’re having this discussion but I want to see exactly what God says in his word I want to see these words lived out in power today you know I love that that verse it says Lord we have heard of your fame we stand in awe of your wonderful deeds renew them in our day this is a cry of of those who I believe are awake and again that’s not to be dismissive that’s not to be trite but I’m with you 100% God we need you today to renew your a fire and your the life that you gave to your people today in our day so tell me let’s go back to Toronto let’s go back to a little Nancy let’s go back to before the lipstick came in a gold container it came actually and a little plastic tube was in a Barbie kit it was in a some kind of kit of some kind of toy that you had what was life growing up in Toronto the family faith what your journey was what your story is who influenced you I can imagine leaving QVC that people people who are in the spotlight tend to like the spotlight so I left 35 years as a corporate executive to go into full-time ministry so I walked out of the boardroom and into the pulpit and left left at all so the seven bedroom mansion left it all behind to serve the Lord so I know what it’s like but what what was it like growing up for you well growing up for me in in many ways was very positive here’s why I 18 months old I was the youngest alright still I am the youngest of three girls my mother didn’t know Christ she had some experience with the church not positive and my father was a Christian but he was not exactly the kind of man that you would look at say wow what at what a model of Christ’s likeness so but however he was a Christian he said to my mom I want to take the kids to church at was the first time and my mom said fine but don’t bring any of that home to me and my mom was a party girl not in a way that was bad you know she wasn’t on drugs and alcohol she was just she really enjoyed life and she really thought that God the church was gonna really kind of squelch that and squash the life in her in the fervor so my mother told me all my life rabbi Walker that that I had been very quiet up until that point like virtually nonverbal and she remembers just thinking oh my my poor little one she’s a little slower than the others the other two girls but the day that my father took us to church for the very first time I came home and my mother told me this story my whole life I came home from my first church service in Canada not just speaking but singing about Jesus lit up like a Christmas tree my mother described it that way or did that I was lit up like a Christmas tree and she remembers wondering what has gotten into this little one of mine what’s happened what’s changed she followed me the church and there grew and there grew to know that God was not angry at her but in fact loved her and didn’t want to squelch and squash her life but wanted to bring her to genuine life so that same mother actually then raised her three girls after my father who was in fact abusive though he said he was a Christian he was abusive in every way sadly and then when I was five he actually left us and walked out and we didn’t see him again for 10 years no money no nothing so that mother who came to faith in Christ raised her three girls to love him and so in many ways it was very positive I had an amazing mom who was very tons of fun and very much you know shoot for the moon if you miss you’re still among the stars keep going keep going you fall down get up you’re fine you know so the church this fear I grew up in was very positive I’m grateful for the Salvation Army that’s my denominational heritage in Canada and it was a very positive positive environment to grow up in so that was really you know my childhood now I will say this same mother who was amazing was also very broken had a lot of anger issues and took a lot of her anger and her fear and out on me to be honest so I’ve had to work on obviously a lot of healing and forgiveness and reconciliation and so it’s probably not too dissimilar to many people in turn in terms of my past and my childhood do you want to know more my teenage life etcetera or well you know the passion that you have is something that that God plants he nurtures he grows but then you you go out into the corporate world and were you equally as on fire did that flame get squashed as it does by most people you get out there you get out on your own and Eve unless you go to a Christian College unless you go to a seminary then it it kind of fades and you you learn to get along or live along or get along and you have to then pull it back so how is that experience for you you know this is something I’ve been leading I’ve been a leader in the church since I was in my teens because in the Salvation Army much like actually the majority of world church I was just watching a documentary the other day sheep among wolves and reading about leadership in the majority world where they where the church is you know the gospel of crisis flourishing much like what’s happening in these parts of the world the Salvation Army they’re not waiting around and making sure you have a seminary degree before they put you in leadership where they use your gear I was a young child when this Amish went when my church discovered I could sing and they put me up on the platform and they put me in the soloist roster I grew in my gifting I was affirmed in my gifting both at home and in the church for me the church was was it perfect absolutely not there were I have many stories of you know being a teenager and feeling like I was the only one on fire for Christ but this I think is unique I was genuinely rabbi Walker in love with Christ from the time I was a little girl I can’t explain it I can’t take credit for it all I know is I loved God and wanted to live for him and by the time I was a teenager I was already leading I preached my first sermon at 16 after going to an Urbana conference I remember it was the first time I heard Tony Campolo speak I loved him and wondered what God was gonna do with this life and and again I think it’s important to say because this isn’t everyone’s story where they just keep growing and fire and growing in fervor and growing in love though I hope it’s the case during that time I also had to deal with a lot of the crud in my life this is some of the things I talk about in the book men to live it’s not a denial of the crud the crap the the horrific things that have happened abuse betrayal it’s not a denial I think the extent to which we can enter into those sad parts those desperately grave parts in our life and invite God into that I think the extent to which we can grieve those things acknowledge those things face those things are the extent to which life and Fire and healing and power grow and our I think it’s like a pendulum that swings I’ll go there with you God to deal with those things in my life and that pendulum of joy and power and fervor and life I think they equal in the measure it’s quite amazing to me actually so I just kept growing and I and I have kept by God’s grace through you know getting married I’ve been married to my husband cam for 29 years and I remember when he and I were dating and he I had never really faced the fact that I didn’t have a dad and that it mattered for example and by our first date my husband was like so is there any healthy relationship any healthy marriage in your family and I’ve never even considered that and I was like huh no one’s ever asked me that but it was people like cam who started to probe and ask questions and help me face what was true so that I could kind of move out of denial move out of this false self into genuine life not a kind of perma-smile Christianity lie I love what you said about the Christ Capades I don’t like that it’s so I don’t like when people say up on the stage when we’re talking about a platform on Sunday morning or or the audience instead of the congregation I’m with you 100% so I think going there for me has been and I talked about this in the book getting honest I think that’s been a real key for me and my life in Christ and my fervor for him so this challenge this this began chipping away at you that we’ve all had this experience that when you walk into a Walmart or into any Costco or any one of the large stores I see people who have these very large crosses on or they have a shirt on that says something that implies that they’re believer but their behavior is repugnant the behavior is they’re abusive they will run you over with their cart they extend no courtesy to anyone their frustration in the checkout line is more exaggerated than anybody else they have no self-awareness that they’re wearing a shirt that says I love Jesus and if that’s what loving Jesus looks like then I don’t want any part of Jesus now you need to know my story yeah I grew up in the synagogue forty-four years in the synagogue so I’m looking at these people in the world who say they’re Christians and I’m saying well listen at least I know that when I go to synagogue on Friday night or Saturday and I’m sitting next to an attorney or an accountant that I may be if it be praying with them on Friday or Saturday but I could be in the courtroom with them suing them on Monday because business is business and that’s just the way it was that’s that’s that’s not a lifestyle that’s that’s just that was a community that you live in that was the Jewish world we grew up in that’s the way it was but here is this statement in Romans 11 where Paul writes to the Gentiles he said look do not boast about your salvation they don’t worry it as a badge of pride he said because God gave you this gift to provoke his wrath in me then you are this understand who you are you are not the root you’re not the tree you’re the branch and the branch does not support the root the root supports the branch so you’re grafted in to them yes they’re not grafted in to you you’re grafted in to them and so what can we look at 2,000 years of history about how the Jews have been treated and that doesn’t speak well to Christianity then we take a look at Christianity and we say how is Christianity treated each other and you don’t see a positive report you know so many thoughts are coming to me right now and I’m praying as you’re speaking trying to make sure that what it is I’m saying is what I ought to say you know submitting to the Spirit of God but some of the thoughts and first of all I have to say that I you know I’m one of those people that has been I’d list these four camps and one of the camps you know where they’re camping out in the bad news instead of living in light of a good news one of the camps is truth protectors I am a recovering Pharisee I am a recovery truth protector so I’m not here today to say oh I’ve got it all right and these people need to get it all right and these people need to catch up with me Here I am saying by God’s grace by God’s grace has he allowed me or you to see any of it clearly and next year I want to say oh oh my gosh I thought I knew God I thought I knew you then but look what you revealed of yourself to me now and I just want that to continue to continue but the fact of the matter is I’m with you you know Gandhi said the trouble with Christians as they look so unlike their Christ and I talked about a documentary that was made Lord save us from your followers it’s a fantastic documentary it’s a little bit old now I don’t know how old it is maybe 10 years or so but you know if we as followers of Christ if we as Christians we dare take the name of Jesus on us on our t-shirt on it on a cross on a bumper sticker I mean I don’t care what you wear I mean whatever I want my life to be the sign not just my words for sure but all that I am if we dare take on his name Christian then we we there is no alternative to facing what is true to getting honest getting honest getting honest about where the church has failed people not trying to deny it not try I don’t need to defend it I don’t need to justify why I to own it in humility and say even today there but by God’s grace but I don’t think it comes with with scrapping with certainly with with our brothers and sisters in Christ which even yesterday I made a post you know because there was something that came out you know a very well-known pastor said some pretty darn unkind things about another very beloved woman speaker and I’m preacher and I’m like wait do we need to do this with one another and then if we can’t love one another our brothers and sisters in Christ how on earth are we ever going to love a world well let’s talk about that because that’s part of the confusion here you have someone who is well known in his denominational world that does not believe that women have a speaking part in the church and he was very forthright in his statements of stating that this person does not belong in this role and this person does not belong in this role well I happen to have been in Israel this past year and ran into someone who is 85 years old Kay Arthur we saw each other we greet each other with the wonderful hug and kiss and said is amazing that we’re still doing this after all these years where my beard used to be bright red and now it’s pure white and my hair used to be red and now it’s white and look at look at how many and look look at where we’re meeting and we were actually standing outside the garden tomb just embracing each other and I know how many lives she has changed I know how many how many people she has impacted to say that that there is because of a letter from Paul written to very dysfunctional group of believers that didn’t know how to handle certain situations that out now became worldwide doctrine it’s like me writing you a letter and somebody finding that letter and saying oh my goodness this is now the law of the land right it was a letter it was a letter dear so-and-so this write this is what’s going on now I would say if your church is experiencing that issue then that particular part of scripture needs to be applied to that issue in the context of the issue but to make it a blanket statement and and I will give you the the largest example in the world okay Jesus was a Jew I’m a Jew when I came to belief in Jesus as my Messiah I remain to do I can’t become a Gentile there’s nothing that can make me a Gentile now however I cannot take communion in a Roman Catholic Church because I’m not Roman Catholic now you’re telling me that 16 generations of Jewish lineage every third generation of rabbi I’m a rabbi that you can come to me and I will have communion with you but your doctrine says that unless I believe the way you believe I cannot have the Lord’s Supper with you which was a Jewish institution still is a Jewish institution and will be a Jewish institution when the Messiah returns because I don’t believe in your handbook not that I don’t believe in the Bible but I don’t believe in your catechism I believe in the Word of God and you’re saying that this then that to me puts in the same category and I’m going to get a thousand emails about this yeah here’s it’s no different than it to Sharia law which is not the Quran it is different it is the application of the Quranic text but it removes the Quran from it and says you’re just going to go by these set of laws when we start introducing these extra biblical documents into the narrative we’re believers we’re supposed to rally around one truth one God one spirit one gospel one teaching one Holy Spirit one message and we have 38,000 iterations of it and it brings so much confusion that it says when people say to me well you’re Jewish but are you a Christian and my answer is it all depends on what you’re asking me yes yeah are you asking me am i a follower of the gospel then the answer is yes but am i a Baptist and by a Lutheran am I this I mean that I happen to be ordained as a Baptist minister that was at the doing of someone who was very very close to me and said I can get you into five hundred baptist churches if you would just let me ordain you as a Baptist minister and I can increase your platform and you can get the message out further I said I said bring it do it hang it well that’s fine so they laid hands on me and they brought me forward and they ordained me as a Baptist minister did that mean make me a Calvinist and my answer was no every time I put on Calvin’s they’re too tight in the so I’m a Levi’s guy not a Calvin guy and they’re going what are you talking about so he’s I’m a Calvin Klein and another store no we’re talking about back to QVC all right there you go so you know we’ve allowed so much doctrine to divide us when it’s supposed to be the most unifying and powerful message that there can possibly be we’re talking with Nancy Hicks author of meant to live living in light of the good news in here she says the church in North America has not done a good job reflecting the light that comes from the gospel instead many Christians have become preoccupied with their camp their cynicism of their fashion for specific cause at the expense of their gospel given light if the gospel is not the foundation if prosperity is the foundation if glory to glory is your foundation if there’s so many different foundations if it’s not routed around one foundation and that is Jesus died for your sins and he rose again on the third day and now he’s sitting at the right hand of the Father interceding for you and because he lives you can live that’s it that is all there is if you believe in your heart and professor with your mouth that Jesus Lord that is it that is the beginning and the end of the discussion how you want to personally apply it is up to you and you have great freedom and great latitude no one should judge you as Paul writes in Galatians no one should judge you for your Sabbath observance or your new moon festival which means that you should not be judging me as a Sabbath observant Jew even as a believer yeah or that I celebrate Rosh Hashanah or I celebrate Yom Kippur or that I celebrate the Passover as a Jew I’m free free not under the law but free to do so and invite you to join me because guess what Jesus did exactly those same things and when he comes back he will again do those exact same things and maybe you’ll draw closer to the Lord just by having experience one time experience it it’s in the Bible it’s there we’re gonna take a short break and when we come back we’re going to rejoin Nancy Hicks and talk about the four camps and talk about how do you navigate in and then out and where your landing place should be we’ll be right 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talk about the what’s wrong but you also talk about the what’s right all right and I want to make sure that people understand that we’re not mad at the church we’re not mad at Christianity we’re not mad at you as a believer but there is definitely in North America a dwindling population of those who are willing to identify as Christians and more who are identifying with the nun category and as I look in the Southern Baptist Convention documents sent to me I see that we have had 10 15 consecutive years of diminishing salvations diminishing baptisms offerings and attendants are dwindling and there is a consolidation going on where people are leaving the small church going into the mega church and then what happens when that leader and that leader has fallen what happens to all those people 70,000 50,000 who look up to this one person and they stand there in the pulpit and confess that they have failed morally and all of a sudden it becomes devastating and it is public knowledge and the world is looking at the behavior and saying do I want to be a part of that Groucho Marx made the statement he said I do not want to be a part of any organization that would have me as a member meaning he didn’t feel that they screamed well enough to have him as a part of it and so is this what the church is becoming a place that we don’t want to belong because we’re projecting something negative to the public or we’re not carrying our faith and living our faith were professing our faith but we don’t care about what we say they watch what we do and that’s the message in meant to live so take us through this if you would Nancy about the four camps how do we get there and let’s let’s see how we navigate our way out of it and let me say that that you know I wrote this book because I like you have seen this dichotomy in the church today so in the majority world so as I travel to Asia Africa South America I haven’t been to South America yet but I know that the church is burgeoning there the gospel is flourishing as the as the gospel is flourishing in these areas and I’m going and seeing it firsthand I’m seeing people alive I’m seeing people coming into the kingdom and genuinely alive then you come back to North America and like you every day I’m getting something that is reminding me again of the radical decline of a church congregation numbers and sizes seminaries it goes it goes on and on and so we’re faced with the statistics we’re faced with the demographics of people that aren’t leaving the church and so you take a look and say wait what’s going on here and so one of the things that I noticed in my really decades as a leader in the church though I wasn’t a full-time Christian speaker I’d always worked in the marketplace I’ve always been a leader in the church serving in the church and so you know you start to notice and I’m sure that this is not exhaustive but I started to notice sort of these four camps of Christians categories aren’t perfect metaphors aren’t perfect but there’s a breakdown at some point but they do help us a little bit and so the four camps that I’ve noticed generally across Christianity at least in North America probably broader than that but I’ll speak to what I know best four camps one is what I call the untapped camp of Christians and these are all by the way people who are kind of slopping around kind of living in this low level not actually responding to the call of God that emerges out of Genesis chapter 3 where goes out into the garden and Adam and Eve are now naked and hiding and ashamed though before that they weren’t they were naked and unashamed and in great relationship now they’re hiding in ashamed and we noticed God in that Genesis chapter three text he goes out into the garden and calls where are you and explicit and the text is where are you implicit in the text is you were meant to live and I believe God is calling us back so instead of responding to that amazing call come back come back come and live we’re kind of slopping in this low level some version of the gospel which really as the Apostle Paul says there’s no gospel at all the untappd camp is one of those is one of those categories that I’ve identified we can a lot of people have put themselves there they feel like I’m it’s that worm theology I’m just a grain of sand I don’t amount to much don’t ask much of me woe is me man when you get a leader in those positions it just drops a whole wet blanket on everything a leader who’s got that sort of mentality untappd another category or camp of Christian is what I call the truth protectors truth protectors are the sort of the Christian police they’re the ones going out and saying women shouldn’t preach they’re the ones going out and saying what version of the scriptures are you reading and they’re kind of wrapping people on the knuckles there’s a lot of judgment a lot of harshness and so and by the way all of these camps have really amazing things to offer as well there are some great strengths in them but they get misapplied and that’s where we get into trouble the third camp of Christians is what I call – keepin it real and and the keeping it real czar the people that say I’ll take Jesus it’s the whole Bonhoeffer cheap grace I’ll take Jesus as forgiver but I will not take him as leader it’s too hard and so we then sort of toss out this obedience to Christ and we see that in society today oh yeah I’m a Christian but I live however the heck I and my life is on a downward spiral but Jesus does love me and is that true yes in part but it’s it’s very incomplete so that’s the keeping it real and there and and let me give you my final before I say what they’re all kind of doing with each other the final is what I final camp is what I call hashtag blessed and that is the prosperity theology come to Jesus your life will be great everyone will be healed you’ll be wealthy you know basically it’s the American dream on steroids in Jesus name and all of these camps of Christians are reacting to each other and sometimes you have broad swings you know you have these these keeping it real slavey who then or let’s say instead of keeping it real let’s say the truth protectors who have a major moral failing and then all of a sudden they say well you know what here’s the real me and I know God loves me anyway and you may judge me and so they had that you know but at least I’m honest so we can have these broad swings they’re reacting to each other we’re fighting with each other god help us but we’re not responding to the God who in every situation is saying come and live I love the passage in John chapter 5 I think it’s 31 or 39 where Jesus looks at the religious people he looks at the Pharisees he looks at the religious leaders he says you diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life these are the scriptures that point to me and yet you risk used to come to me and live and I think that’s what I’m seeing a lot in in some of the camps anyway but maybe in all of them as we’re sort of fearful and sloshing around and trying to figure it all out together we are fighting each other we’re fighting the culture but we are not looking up and responding vision responding to the God who calls us to life we are spending way too much time down here in the camps I will kind of add to for a moment and that is in the camp that says point to Jesus the Scriptures begin in Genesis pointing to Jesus gasps the first reference we have is genesis 3:15 which is the seed of the woman and the seed of the Serpent and the seed of the woman is the Messiah and from that point forward you see God clearing a path so the Messiah can be born so every person place or thing that he annihilated wiped out removed moved displaced whatever he did for a sole purpose and that was for protection of the seed line of the Messiah now we see that we’re in this most uneducated and uninformed period we’ve ever been in because we pay no attention to the other half of the prophecy and that is the seed of the serpent so here we are word Jesus only as a matter of fact we’re so Jesus only we’ve seen forget about the Old Testament but God declared at the exact time that he declared the seed of the woman he declared that there was going to be a counterfeit and so what we’ve done is we’ve made plenty of space for the counterfeit we don’t talk about him we don’t talk about the enemy we don’t talk about the Antichrist we don’t talk about the son of perdition we don’t talk about the difficult times that are gonna come and so when people look at the coalition’s being formed in the Middle East they’re just saying well they’re a bunch of crazy lunatics and I’m saying no that’s prophetic fulfillment if you read the prophecy of Ezekiel if you read the prophecy of Isaiah if you read the prophecy of Jeremiah you know what was going on but because you divorced yourself from the foundational text and said Jesus only and don’t even know that Jesus was introduced back in Genesis yeah and you need to hold on to the entirety of Scripture what you’re doing is you’re operating a vacuum and you’re gonna be shocked surprised and awe and going to die because you have no knowledge of and the Bible says very clearly my people perish for lack of knowledge God God is talking about the Jews he’s talking about the Gentiles he’s talking about the world he is a biblically illiterate eighty percent of American churchgoers cannot finish until you tell you what jeremiah 29:10 says before they can tell you this wonderful glorious Jeremiah 29:11 for I know the plans I have for you and their plans but what comes before that yeah I don’t know what comes before that John 3:16 everybody knows John 3:16 3:16 and that’s certainly wonderful then it’s incredible that God sent His only begotten Son but for what purpose did he send his son well that’s in the next passage John 3:17 how many people even know that he sent his son to save of the world not to condemn the world and so when I bring the message that whoever believes in Jesus will not perish and the drug user or the child molester or the draw the the alcoholic says well you know okay so he sent if I believe in him that I might have eternal life but I don’t want to live like this you mean I’m gonna live as a junkie for the rest of my life what kind of value proposition is that well unless I know the next verse mm-hmm that God came to save you not condemn you and deliver you and to bind up the brokenhearted and set the captives free I missed the message III agree with you and it’s interesting again there are so many rich things that you’re saying we could just go into a number of directions but you know it’s interesting because I do think about this way either when I wrote this book I was actually nervous this is my first book and I have several I’d like to write and I’m just getting started so and thanks for having me on by the way because I was actually really concerned that people were going to this is that this is the the tenor of you know the the atmosphere in Christianity and in the in the West but certainly in America there’s such a fear and whose camp and people want to label you quickly you could say well that’s what you’re doing Nancy with your categories and your camps like I said they’re not exhaustive and they help us they’re not complete for sure but we want to write people off we want to say you don’t believe this or if you believe this therefore you’re not and we want to sort of separate and divide and that’s where the church is today it’s not inclusive it doesn’t open the table and say come one come all thus saith the Lord I mean God is calling today God is calling people to himself you might not see that if you’re living in North America if you’re living in the u.s. so that’s why if one of the things as I speak at conferences and churches and retreats is is help people understand what you’re seeing on any given Sunday or what your you’re noticing in your small groups whatever is nowhere close to the full picture of what God is doing around the world we need to catch a glimpse of what God not a glints a full vision by God’s grace of what he is doing in our time but we’re gonna play down here we’re gonna play it small we’re gonna grapple and fight with each other instead of responding I think it’s really a tragedy that that we think in many cases that eternal life is later that I get eternity eternal life means I get God later when the kingdom of God is established on earth as it is in heaven when eternal eternal life is now I get the Living God if I say God God be the forgiver of my sins and the leader of my life and the Spirit of God comes inside of us Father Son and Holy Spirit Spirit of God inside of me and that now because God is life he doesn’t just dispense life he doesn’t just talk about life he doesn’t just skip Heat is life in the spirit of the Living God who is life comes inside of me unending life begins now and I’m telling you when you start to really think about that it takes you from a place of bickering and getting distracted with these small things we’re talking about these are not small things but they sure can become little things can certainly become big big things it takes us from being distracted by those things to a place of utter gratitude and of utter humility utter humility and it’s in that place that we move out in life to love not just our brothers and sisters in Christ who we disagree with by the way of course we do but those who are so far from God yes and actually we do talk about lgbtq+ we do talk about people who are who are tormented desperately I work in a homeless shelter I go every second Wednesday morning I take what I once was doing at my local church not big nondenominational church and the Bible study that I that I was teaching there for now I do it in a homeless shelter every second Wednesday and I look these precious people in the face and I bring the Word of God to them and I sit tabled a table I just kind of mingle I’ve been doing this over three years and I look at their precious faces and I’m telling you rabbi I cannot look at their precious faces I am NOT there to convert them I am there to love them where they are and point them to the God who can actually do something about it because I can’t I don’t have what it takes but God in me can love can serve can point them to the Living God and love them their lives actually may never change in fact that’s the truth some of them are so drugged so addicted can God do it yes of course he can will he I don’t know but my job is to love and to point them to the one who can change everything but I can’t actually there are no guarantees as to whether or not that will actually happen but there is hope I believe there’s always hope but we have got this incredible hope and this is a message of hope and the fact that you are going out is exactly what we’re called to do it says go out it doesn’t say stay in doesn’t say if you build it they will come go out and so if you want to understand the current condition of the church and what you can do and how you can make it better and you can build the kingdom build it be a kingdom builder a kingdom changer by taking the right attitude and by being a shining example for the Messiah in every circumstance get a copy of meant to live living in light of the good news by Nancy Hicks best way to get it go to igniting nation.com that’s our website click on the broadcast schedule it’s right there you don’t have to do anything but just go to the homepage you’re gonna see the name Nancy Hicks right there on the homepage click on that it’s gonna take you right to a place to purchase the book and get a copy for yourself Nancy Hicks meant to live living in light of the good news thank you for sharing this incredible story with us here on revealing the truth my joy and I’d love for people to connect with me on Facebook and Instagram or at my website Nancy Hicks live all of them Nancy Hicks de life god bless your work rabbi and you as well thank you we’re gonna be short break and when we come back we’ll bring you the next edition of revealing the truth

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